The Highway Forums General Discussion Open Forum Ravi speaks at the Mormon Tabernacle

Thanks Pilgrim, I see I am not the only one that took his demands that way. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/BigThumbUp.gif" alt="" />

Tom

I used to love to listen to Ravi as a young Christian...I even read his book, "Can Man Live Without God". Great speaker, great story teller of personal events outside the USA.

Year later after becoming 'reformed'...I wrote the ministry about their views on election. The woman who responded happened to be a calvinist and told me that the calvinist/arminian debate is common place there.

The ministry is about bare bones apologetics (classical, not presupp)....with emphasis on reaching the skeptic.

blessings, laz

Forgive me if I post comments that have been already made. I would like to comment on several things I have read on this thread, and some observations made.

By way of background, I was raised reformed, and for the most part still hold to reformed theology. However due to my geographical location right now, I attend a Southern Baptist Church.. ( LOL Son of an ARP going to a SBC.. cute huh).

Initially when I heard what Ravi did in Salt Lake, I started to research online, and elsewhere. I could not believe that the current senior editor of 'The Kingdom of The Cults" had ventured into the Lions Den. Initially , the source of my information was from that group in Salt Lake City entitled "Standing Together" . My thoughts now of that ministry, is that it was started by a former Mormon, who would like to gently 'woo' the Mormons into Christianity.

Further comments made by others really distressed me. HOWEVER, Ravi's statements as to why he went there ( found here: http://www.rzim.org/faqs/newstext.php?id=64 ) gave me assurance that he had not diluted his preaching, or was not 'blinded' as to what he was getting into. His motives also seem to flow from an Evangelists heart-- especially as one who believes in the 'Life Changing Power' of the words of Scripture.

( As an Aside-- Even those of us who believe that God saves first, then God gives the gift of faith so that we can respond to the Gospel.. also believe that the preaching of scripture is the precursor to faith. "Faith cometh by hearing, and that by the Word of God" )

What really distressed me was the leader of the "Standing Together" ministries, when asked how it was that Ravi Zacharias could come and speak-- when he was the senior editor of a book which devoted almost a 1/4 of its pages to the Mormons responded to the effect: "Oh.. he doesn't really endorse it.. he's just a senior editor, and he goes on the recommendations of other jr editors."

Michael Card ( while sometimes viewed by Reformers as holding to some 'Neo-Orthodox' theology-- while at the same time proclaiming at times some very distinct Reformed doctrine)-- said that he sang 'Immanuel" because he believes that that song presents a clear view of the Gospel
message.

Also Ravi's views on "Sanctuary Evangelism" is that there are indeed groups of people who have not heard the gospel, because the Church is afraid to leave the 'security' of the 'sanctuary' and preach the Gospel.

Anyone who would spend time and listen to his sermons would know that Ravi doesn't cut corners on preaching the horridness of sin-- the reality of Hell-- the demand for holiness before God-- and the utter necessity of Jesus as our Personal Saviour before we can stand before God Justified, having met the demand of Gods Law.

Now the issue I do have is Dr Mouw-- he is the President of Fuller Seminary-- He made some statements that would have gotten him tossed out of any Reformed Seminary, or College--HE made statements that attacked the veracity of Walter Martins treatise on Mormons. He made some blanket staements.. and then he posted a repsonse as to why he made these.. and his comments only validated Mormonism, and in a sense it brought them into the 'same camp' as Christendom, but he apologized for Evangelicals sinning against Mormons.

Dr Mouw's comments can be read on the 'Standing Together' Website. Fuller's website had it posted, but it is no longer up there., So this is the link: http://www.standingtogether.org/ravi.html

I don't want to hold Ravi up as a 'Model Refrormed Theologian' ( HIs theology comes across Dispensational - but it is very rare that it comes out.) He IS an Apologist--and a very well read scholar. His treatment of the Exclusivity of Jesus Christ, and the absolute un-moving position on the Triune nature of the Godhead, as well as his dogmatic stance on Scripture and its unchanging nature, as well as its relevance yesterday, today, and tommorrow... all of that combined should leave no room for pause.

Again, if this information has been posted, please forgive me.. and thank you for allowiong me to post such a long post.

Also as an add-on. Ravi's Website statement regarding the Trinity: We believe there is one God who is infinitely perfect, existing eternally in three persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

I understand that this statement is not a full blown treatise like the WCF, or Athanasius' complete description of the Trinity... but it also is not "One-ness" theology prevalent in "Apostolic Pentecostal" churches...

It also doesn't jive with Mormon Doctrine. It is a succinct definition of what Christendom has held through the years. God is distinct in three persons (substance), yet is one in essence.

Whoever wrote that statement demanding RZIM change their website--obviously has not listened to Ravi's sermons.. or 'Apologies'.... If I wanted too, I am sure I could find 'tiny' problems where RC Sproul, or Mike Horton makes a statement and doesn't fully clarify it with an Enclyclopedic explanation.

Edited: changed HTML tags to UBB tags - Pilgrim

Perhpas no one really cares, but since this thread has generated almost 7 pages I thought I would share this.

Craig Hazen appears on a radio program entitled 'Stand to Reason'.. and explains a lot of how this event came to be. They also discuss Dr Mouw's remarks.. and thankfully both agree that Dr MOuw used incorrect terminology in saying that we evangelicals have trespassed against mormons. Trespassing implies a wilfullness to deceit--

Anyways for what its worth, here the link.. I don't know if you have to register to get access.. but if you do, its free.

http://www.strradio.org/current/121904.m3u

Enjoy

PS When do I move up from being a "plebian"? <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I think the list found here is current: List of Titles and their requirements.

Thanks for the links on this, Tom. I bought the CD of Ravi's talk and I found it quite good -- a solid, Christ-centered, Bible-saturated, God-exalting, sin-expounding, need-for-a-savior talk if I ever heard one. I pray that there were many in attendance who heard God's Word (thru Ravi) and come to repentance and a relationship with Christ as a result of it.

In Christ,
Ted