The Highway Forums General Discussion Open Forum A church reaches out to the world around them

This is an inspiring article. We should all learn to live outside our box.

http://www.irvingbible.org/resources/andys_email.html

Paul,

I can affirm that there are Christians who are "locked in a box", i.e., they have basically cloistered themselves by avoiding as much direct contact with non-Christians as they are able, particularly in the area of bringing the Gospel to them. To love the poor, for example, is to feed and clothe them. To love sinners is to speak to them openly about their need of a radical transformation (regeneration) and to be reconciled to God by repentance and faith in the Lord Christ.

However, I must reject the manner in which it was said this should be done. What I perceived is but another example of bad theology results in bad practice. Let me illustrate what my objection is by quoting a brief portion of the Pastor's personal letter to the homosexual who wrote him:

In other words, we believe God says to all people: "I invite you to come to
me just as you are, because I love you. But don't expect to stay as you are,
for I want to transform you more and more to be like my Son Jesus." That's
why we believe God wants our church to be a grace-giving community that
accepts people where they're at while challenging them to grow in holiness.

Pastor Andrew McQuitty
Irving Bible Church

First of all, God calls sinners to repentance and faith in Christ. It is not true that God loves everyone just as they are. If that were true, then there would have been no need for Christ to suffer the penalty for sin. The Scripture says that "the wrath of God is revealed against all unrighteousness" and "I hate all those who commit iniquity", etc. God's love was exhibited in the sending of His Son. And further, the love of God is shed upon all those who are in Christ Jesus. The only way anyone can be said to be loved of God is if they are in union with Christ. Yes, God loved the elect from all eternity, but as He saw them as being washed by the blood of the Saviour.

Secondly, I must object to, "for I want to transform you more and more to be like my Son Jesus". If it was truly God's desire to transform each and every sinner, then all would infallibly be transformed. Whatever God desires comes to pass. (Is 46:10) What God first requires is that sinners repent of their sins and cast themselves upon Christ for the remission of their sins. It is to those who have already been "transformed" (regenerated) that God desires that they live holy lives before Him. For in that desire there is power and the infallible guarantee that it shall be done; they shall be holy. (Rom 8:30; Eph 1:4; Phil 1:6; et al). The "invitation" is extended to "all ye that labour and are heavy laden" (Matt 11:28) but not to those who have no desire for God, Christ or holiness.

As you full well know, I hold to that "old fashioned Gospel" whereby the Law of God is first preached and then the grace of God as it is found in the Lord Jesus Christ. It is erroneous, because it is not found in God's Word, to indiscriminately say to everyone, "God loves you and may have a wonderful plan for your life"!!

In His Grace,

In light of the context of the response to these people, the pastor's words are completely accurate.

What is the usual accusation the gay activists make to Christians? That we are judgemental and bigoted.

His letter was designed to dispel that accusation. Would you prefer he say "God might love you, but the jury is still out?"

You just have to get the swipe at CCCI in don't you? Could you give it a rest? I'd like to move on from that topic.

Paul <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/surrender.gif" alt="" />

What's accurate about this:

"We believe God says to all people: 'I invite you to come to
me just as you are, because I love you.'" That's a lie. God does not say that to all people, and it gives both a false impression of who God is and false assurance of His mercy (how many times have you heard, "God created me this way and He loves me"?).

Gay activists, as well as all other types of sinners, need to learn that it's not we who are "judgemental," but GOD HIMSELF. It is only when one stands in judgement before God that he realizes the depth of his sin and the impossibility of escape—except through Christ.


Also, what's "CCCI," and where do you see Pilgrim taking a "swipe" at it? <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/scratch1.gif" alt="" />

Campus Crusade for Christ International?

I suppose that's what Paul meant, in which case I say, Campus Crusade OUGHT to be mocked. It spreads a corrupt gospel.

Henry is correct. I work a ministry that is part of Campus Crusade.

I disagree with your analysis of the pastor's words. You are taking them completely out of context.

Your approach would totally alienate these people unneccessarily and they would interpret your words as another example of bigotry.

Paul

Simply saying so means little.



Yes, their perspective is wrong.


God bless,

william

I would just like to point out that Pastor Andy does not give one scriptural reference! NOT ONE! This is the direction that the majority of the Church of Christ seems to be heading. Let's be Christians without the bible. Well I say Wrong!


But he never points to where in the Bible it specifically states that Homosexuality is a sin.


I believe there is this mistaken notion that people with homosexual tendencies don't have a choice and that isn't fair and God is wrong and unjust to judge them. But it is very plain that homosexuality is sin. But the problem I believe is that it is a very recognizable sin. So people are very plainly confronted with the problem of sin through this particular and very plain sin. That is when we find people either confronting it or trying to cover it. You see, other sins aren't that obviously plain. They aren't a black and white issue. Take the sin of pride. Pride is a very very serious sin. But you don't hear people saying... well I was born with pride and I don't feel that I have a choice whether or not to be prideful, so God is unjust to punish me.

So in a nutshell, what I'm trying to say is that ALL sin is equally as bad and it ALL leads to death. Sin is what is wrong with us, Sin is what we need to address and Sin is what we need to constantly battle with. But people do not want to confront their sin. People hate sin, they don't want to talk about it or deal with it. So naturally we have a tendency to run away from it instead of confronting it and being convicted by it. I'm sorry, I've heard many arguments from liberals for the more pragmatic, less convicting, just focus on the love of Jesus as our Saviour approach. I don't agree with it. It's not edifying, it's autonomous and it never truly helps anyone.

I believe that Gospel must be proclaimed with conviction. The truth of the word is what allows the Holy Spirit to effectually work in the hearts of sinners.

Hi, Paul. I’m a Teddy-come-lately to the board (in the past few months) and I haven’t seen you around lately until this post. Greetings in Christ to you!

There’s a lot of things I like about the link that you provided. For example . . . .


. . . . . I like what Pastor McQuitty wrote here about the need to engage with the lost people in the world where they are, and then to anticipate God’s transformational work in their lives. And I, like Pastor McQuitty, find that extremely challenging. [My sinful nature . . . . <heavy sigh>]

I also like VERY much what Pastor McQuitty wrote about the movie character, Shelby . . . . . . .


. . . . . regarding the TRUTH of the Bible.

And as a parent, I particularly agree (and am challenged by) what Pastor McQuitty wrote here:


I also like his discussion of John 8 and his conclusion . . . . .


But . . . . after saying all that, Paul, I’m not a big fan of the letter that Pastor McQuitty wrote to the person in a gay lifestyle.

My problem with the letter boils down to the same thing that others here at the board appear to be struggling with – the lack of “conviction of sin.” Without it – “conviction of sin” – there can be no true appreciation of what Jesus accomplished on the cross. Or, to put it in Pastor McQuitty’s words, it lacks “BOTH.”

Yours in Christ’s service,
Ted

I have a sneaking suspicion that this is not exactly what you meant to write, eh? <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> For the sad fact is that people love their sin; so much so that they would risk an eternity in hell rather than repent of it and live before God in holiness. What people hate is to be confronted, challenged and called on the carpet for their sin. They will use any excuse to justify their sinful acts.

On the other side, the "ecclesiastically correct" approach is to bifurcate sinner and sin in two ways. 1) Doctrinal: God loves the sinner but hates the sin. For an excellent rebuttal of this unbiblical error see here: Does God Love the Sinner and Hate Only His Sin?. 2) Practical: Sin is simply a wrong deed, a mistake, bad choices and thus the person is basically good. There are two errors to be seen with this current approach to evangelism/ministry: a) It externalizes sin, ignoring and/or denying the truth that sin is the fruit of a bad heart. (Gen 6:5; 8:21; Matt 15:18, 19; Mk 7:21-23; Lk 6:43-45; Eph 2:1-3) I have no doubt whatsoever that this error is due to the modern church, regardless of denominational affiliation has either diminished or totally ignored the doctrine of Total Depravity. b) It fails to hold sinners accountable for their sins which are committed by them most willingly. Sinners are not "victims" of society, lack of education and/or money, poor upbringing, etc. and thus they sin. Nor do people "become" sinners when they sin. The truth is that people sin because they ARE sinners, and that by nature. Further sin is both acts of commission (transgression of God's law) and omission (failure to conform to God's law). And in both instances, sin is committed most freely and willingly. Therefore sinners need to be confronted with this most painful truth in order that they may know that they are hopelessly and helplessly lost and under the wrath of God unless God in His mercy should grant them grace and they repent and turn to Christ for the remission of their sins and the power to overcome their sin nature.

In His Grace,

and not just dismissing it out of hand.

I don't post here much, partly because I haven't had much time lately.

As to your objection:

I thought the pastor made it very clear that sin is sin & God will not tolerate it. Nor would the church:

"The Bible teaches that all of us are sinners, and
though God always loves us, He hates our sin and calls us to repentance and
holiness. The Bible is clear that homosexual practices are unwelcome to God.
We are a Bible church, and as the scriptures would never affirm a gay
relationship as good and acceptable to God, neither would we."


keep in mind who he is writing to. Why be totally condemning? Why not leave the door open for the person to visit the church? Give them a chance to experience a place where all types of sin are struggled with & dealt with. Isn't that more compelling than trying to "convict" the person of their sin through the first correspondence? Perhaps the person he is writing to has never thought about these issues much or has never even been near a church. He only knows what he's been told, Christians hate homosexuals.
Why slam the door in his face figuratively. Perhaps the Holy Spirit is at work to bring this person to faith and this is his first stop along the way, so to speak.

Perhaps the person is already under conviction of his sin, and just needs a Christian to come along side of him and care. Just maybe.

Thanks Ted.
paul

Could you offer scripture in support of your assertions? Thanks.


God bless,

william

Yes please excuse me, this is of course what I meant. Thanks for keeping my honest Jeff.


But..... there has to come a time when we are confronted with our sin. There has to come a time when we are lead to repentance through the conviction of the Gospel. In my opinion there is no opportune time for it. You see, in your argument, you are saying not to be convicting through your first correspondence so as to hopefully encourage them to church. But through this ideology, we then develop worship services and sermons that aren't convicting either. This is done so as not to offend people by confronting them with the seriousness of their sin. So what then? When are people ever going to be faced with their sin? When are they ever going to be rebuked? When are they ever going to be encouraged to read the bible and start to lead biblical life styles?

You see I attended a church like this and was lost for a long time. I believe that there is a very big misconception of what LOVE is now-days. People think that love is being individualistic and not really being too involved with each other. People like to be Christians on the surface and they don't mind talking about positive and encouraging things. But when it comes down to the nitty gritty, that's a different story. I found as I started to become more devoted to God's Word that people started to feel uncomfortable around me. Because I was concerned for their eternal well being. Because out of Love I started to talk about real issues. Deep down stuff that wasn't supposed to be touched. Love is when you see another Christian couple struggling and you step in and share the true gospel with them even though it might make them mad at you. Love is when you rebuke your neighbor or stand up for Christ when it might cost us something.

God is Holy Holy Holy. He is a jealous God and He will judge each and everyone of us.


The way I see it is this. The Person inquiring about being accepted at this church seems to be seeking God. Why else would they be interested in going to a church in the first place. So we could look at this as the Holy Spirit already working in this persons heart. I don't believe it would help this person any to sugar coat the gospel. I believe it would help this person if they were truly convicted of their sin through the proclamation of the Word of God. Then this person would have to face the fact that they are wrong and that they need to repent and go to Church to learn more about being a Christian and giving their lives to Christ. Or they will reject Christ and lead a life of sin. In which case they shouldn't be feel welcome or comfortable in church. I don't believe the church is a place for sinners to feel comfortable. But of course this is just my opinion.

Y.B.I.C,

Dave.

Thanks to your response, Paul, I now see that Pastor McQuitty did indeed use a small portion of his letter to address "sin."

However, it was lost in a virtual sea of love and grace.

I mean, I was looking for the "sin" and I couldn't find it.

Perhaps that is what is wrong with modern evangelism: we are mostly grace and just a little bit sin.

============================================================

I am pretty sure that Jesus start His public ministry with "Repent, the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand!"

And we need look no further in the Bible than Deuteronomy 28 to see just how much God wants obedience and just how much He hates sin: the chapter starts with 14 verses of "Blessing for obedience" and is then followed by 53 brutal verses of "Curses for Disobedience."

God's point?

He knows our sinful natures. He knows that we need four times the reminder of sin than we do the reminders of His blessed promises.

And if we are to be God-blessed ambassadors of God's Holy and precious Gospel, I believe that we need to be that "heavy handed" in our handling of sin in our evangelism.

To God goes the glory,
Ted