Donations for the month of July


We have received a total of "$0" in donations towards our goal of $175.


Don't want to use PayPal? Go HERE


Forum Search
Member Spotlight
Rick Bates
Rick Bates
Charlestown, R.I. US
Posts: 197
Joined: January 2020
Forum Statistics
Forums30
Topics7,532
Posts53,976
Members970
Most Online523
Jan 14th, 2020
Top Posters
Pilgrim 14,224
Tom 4,222
chestnutmare 3,211
J_Edwards 2,615
Wes 1,856
John_C 1,838
RJ_ 1,583
MarieP 1,579
gotribe 1,060
Top Posters(30 Days)
Pilgrim 15
Tom 12
jta 9
John_C 3
Meta4 3
Recent Posts
Dispensational Description
by NetChaplain - Fri Jul 01, 2022 1:58 PM
Coach Wins Case
by jta - Fri Jul 01, 2022 8:16 AM
There is a Fountain ~ William Cowper
by Rick Bates - Tue Jun 28, 2022 6:35 PM
First Work, Sins—Second Work, Sin!
by NetChaplain - Tue Jun 28, 2022 9:09 AM
Nicene Creed Question
by jta - Mon Jun 27, 2022 8:28 AM
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 2 1 2
#24095 Wed Apr 06, 2005 4:55 PM
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
I am a 5-point Calvinist, but I dislike the TULIP acronym. I think 4 of the 5 letters are very misleading. Please check out this article regarding the problems with "TULIP":
http://www.biblelighthouse.com/sovereignty/nomoretulip.htm

I much prefer this formulation of the 5 points:

E - Exhaustive Depravity
L - Lord-centered Election
E - Effectual Atonement
C - Conquering Grace
T - Triumphant Saints

I go into some more detail here:
http://www.biblelighthouse.com/sovereignty/elect.htm

I'm so tired of hearing Arminians build straw men out of the
words "unconditional", "limited", and "irresistible". "TULIP" has
been around so long, and it's not going away. But it would be nice to start seeing fewer TULIPs as time goes by. When I try to explain "TULIP" to people, I often have to explain why "unconditional" doesn't really mean "unconditional"; "irresistible" doesn't really
mean "irresistible", etc.

Even R.C. Sproul, Michael Horton, and many other Calvinist authors complain about TULIP or avoid it altogether.

It's time for a new, more Biblical, more helpful mnemonic.
Maybe "ELECT" will be it. Maybe not. But if anyone else has any good ideas for a new "TULIP", by all means, share it!

Let me know your thoughts . . .

In Christ,
Joseph M. Gleason
_________________
www.biblelighthouse.com
---The Bible Lighthouse ---

#24096 Wed Apr 06, 2005 8:07 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 103
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 103
How ‘bout Wheat & Chaff :

CALVINISM
Wholly Unable..to love God
He..hath Chosen
Efficient Atonement
Alive and Renewed by God’s irresistible power
Truly Saved..for time and eternity

ARMINIANISM
Cooperative Efforts..God + Man.
He elects those He sees that will accept Him
All encompassing Atonement
Free to resist grace
Free to fall from grace

Dave

#24097 Wed Apr 06, 2005 8:29 PM
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,838
Permanent Resident
Offline
Permanent Resident
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,838
Joseph,

I heard Sproul and a few others saying that they didn't like the 'L', preferring Definite Atonement instead. I like the 'T', 'U' and 'P' and don't see a need in changing them. And I have no qualms with the 'I'.


John Chaney

"having been firmly rooted and now being built up in Him and established in your faith . . ." Colossians 2:7
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
Quote
John_C said:
Joseph,

I heard Sproul and a few others saying that they didn't like the 'L', preferring Definite Atonement instead. I like the 'T', 'U' and 'P' and don't see a need in changing them. And I have no qualms with the 'I'.

Yeah, but TUDIP doesn't spell anything. Duh! <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/rolleyes2.gif" alt="" />

#24099 Fri Apr 08, 2005 9:47 AM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,060
Old Hand
Offline
Old Hand
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,060
I'm pretty sure Sproul prefers Radical Depravity to Total Depravity which would render the acrostic RUDIP (the P being preservation rather than perserverence).


Trust the past to God's mercy, the present to God's love and the future to God's providence." - St. Augustine
Hiraeth
#24100 Fri Apr 08, 2005 5:12 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 710
Addict
Offline
Addict
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 710
I think the five points should begin with the U after all that came first. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
Quote
gotribe said:
I'm pretty sure Sproul prefers Radical Depravity to Total Depravity which would render the acrostic RUDIP (the P being preservation rather than perserverence).

Hmm... RUDIP. That's no good. It's looks like it comes from the root word RUDE, and the Arminians would have a field day with that. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/excitedgrn.gif" alt="" />

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 21
Journeyman
Offline
Journeyman
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 21
How about TUPID, our arminian friends woulf love that...
Total Depravity
Unconditional Election
Particular Atonement
Irresistible Regenerating Grace
Definite Salvation

:^ )


Brother Bret Lovitz

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 418
Old Hand
Offline
Old Hand
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 418
Bret,
Quote
How about TUPID, our arminian friends woulf love that...
Well, why not make their joy complete?

Sovereignty Of God In:
Total Depravity
Unconditional Election
Particular Atonement
Irresistible Regenerating Grace
Definite Salvation

Hey, since God chose the foolish things of this world to shame the wise, I'm happy to be called STUPID!


In Christ,
Paul S
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 4,222
Likes: 4
Tom Offline
Needs to get a Life
Offline
Needs to get a Life
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 4,222
Likes: 4
Be careful, the word might get out to our Arminian friends <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Tom

Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,856
Wes Offline
Needs to get a Life
Offline
Needs to get a Life
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,856
Tom,

It's better to be called stupid and hold to the doctrines of grace than to be called wise according to the foolishness of Arminianism.

It always comes down to God's sovereignty in all things or man's ability to hold God at bay until he decides for himself by his own free will.

I Corinthians 3:18-20

"Let no one deceive himself. If anyone among you seems to be wise in this age, let him become a fool that he may become wise. For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, "He catches the wise in their own craftiness"; and again, "The LORD knows the thoughts of the wise, that they are futile."


Wes


When I survey the wondrous cross on which the Prince of Glory died, my richest gain I count but loss and pour contempt on all my pride. - Isaac Watts
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,579
Veteran
Offline
Veteran
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 1,579
Wimpy God
Ineffectual atonement
Supremacy of the will
Election conditional


True godliness is a sincere feeling which loves God as Father as much as it fears and reverences Him as Lord, embraces His righteousness, and dreads offending Him worse than death~ Calvin
Wes #24107 Thu Apr 14, 2005 12:42 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 4,222
Likes: 4
Tom Offline
Needs to get a Life
Offline
Needs to get a Life
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 4,222
Likes: 4
Wes

Very true, but I don't want to give them the ammo.

Tom

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 7
Plebeian
Offline
Plebeian
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 7
The word is out, unfortunately.

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 277
Enthusiast
Offline
Enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 277
This isn't light weight stuff. Why not stick with the original? If you care enough about it to take a stand like this you ought to study up on it and know what the doctrines are. Forget the flowers, just know your stuff.


Josh
"...the word of God is not bound."--2 Timothy 2:9
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Link Copied to Clipboard
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 48 guests, and 15 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Nana Dadzie Jr., Cliniql, John E, ManassehAmerican, jta
970 Registered Users
ShoutChat
Comment Guidelines: Do post respectful and insightful comments. Don't flame, hate, spam.
July
S M T W T F S
1 2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30
31
Today's Birthdays
There are no members with birthdays on this day.
Popular Topics(Views)
1,350,623 Gospel truth