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#24479 Sun Apr 24, 2005 1:53 PM
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Poll:

Was Solomon saved?
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Votes accepted starting: Sun Apr 24, 2005 1:00 AM
You must vote before you can view the results of this poll.

True godliness is a sincere feeling which loves God as Father as much as it fears and reverences Him as Lord, embraces His righteousness, and dreads offending Him worse than death~ Calvin
MarieP #24480 Sun Apr 24, 2005 4:23 PM
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Marie,

Solomon's many sins violated fundamental principals of Israelite religion; multiplying wives, worshiping other gods, and building sanctuaries for the foreign gods. It sure appears that later in his life he turned away from the Lord.

Quote
I Kings 11:1-13

Solomon Turns Away from the LORD

But King Solomon loved many foreign women, as well as the daughter of Pharaoh: women of the Moabites, Ammonites, Edomites, Sidonians, and Hittites-- from the nations of whom the LORD had said to the children of Israel, "You shall not intermarry with them, nor they with you. Surely they will turn away your hearts after their gods." Solomon clung to these in love. And he had seven hundred wives, princesses, and three hundred concubines; and his wives turned away his heart. For it was so, when Solomon was old, that his wives turned his heart after other gods; and his heart was not loyal to the LORD his God, as was the heart of his father David. For Solomon went after Ashtoreth the goddess of the Sidonians, and after Milcom the abomination of the Ammonites. Solomon did evil in the sight of the LORD, and did not fully follow the LORD, as did his father David. Then Solomon built a high place for Chemosh the abomination of Moab, on the hill that is east of Jerusalem, and for Molech the abomination of the people of Ammon. And he did likewise for all his foreign wives, who burned incense and sacrificed to their gods.

So the LORD became angry with Solomon, because his heart had turned from the LORD God of Israel, who had appeared to him twice, and had commanded him concerning this thing, that he should not go after other gods; but he did not keep what the LORD had commanded. Therefore the LORD said to Solomon, "Because you have done this, and have not kept My covenant and My statutes, which I have commanded you, I will surely tear the kingdom away from you and give it to your servant. Nevertheless I will not do it in your days, for the sake of your father David; I will tear it out of the hand of your son. However I will not tear away the whole kingdom; I will give one tribe to your son for the sake of My servant David, and for the sake of Jerusalem which I have chosen."


Wes


When I survey the wondrous cross on which the Prince of Glory died, my richest gain I count but loss and pour contempt on all my pride. - Isaac Watts
Wes #24481 Sun Apr 24, 2005 4:35 PM
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Wes,

Thanks. I guess it's just amazing that the Lord would use an unsaved man in writing Scripture.

Would you say Solomon turned away from the Lord (i.e. fell into grievious sin), or did he commit apostasy?

Robert Shaw writes in his commentary on the WCF's section on perseverance:

Quote
When it is said of Solomon, that "he went not fully after the Lord, as did David his father" (1 Kings xi. 6.), it seems manifest, that his declension is to be understood of an abatement of his former zeal, and not of a total and final apostasy. God, as still his father, "chastened him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men;" but never suffered a his mercy to depart away from him."—2 Sam. vii. 14, 15.

If Shaw is correct, then shows a true testimony to God's grace and justification by faith alone.

But then, what of Solomon's lack of repentence?


True godliness is a sincere feeling which loves God as Father as much as it fears and reverences Him as Lord, embraces His righteousness, and dreads offending Him worse than death~ Calvin
MarieP #24482 Sun Apr 24, 2005 5:10 PM
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Marie,

I can't say whether Solomon was saved or not. Only the Lord knows that for sure. However, as I Kings 11:1-13 tells us he did turn away from the Lord in his later years. This disobedience or rebellion against God could be seen as apostacy.

What we do know about him from his writings indicate that he believed it was of paramount importance that we fear God and keep His commandments. And yet we also know that his lifestyle choices in his later years didn't demonstate that.

Quote
Robert Jamieson, A. R. Fausset and David Brown
Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible (1871)

I Kings 11:1, 2. But King Solomon loved many strange women--Solomon's extraordinary gift of wisdom was not sufficient to preserve him from falling into grievous and fatal errors. A fairer promise of true greatness, a more beautiful picture of juvenile piety, never was seen than that which he exhibited at the commencement of his reign. No sadder, more humiliating, or awful spectacle can be imagined than the besotted apostasy of his old age; and to him may be applied the words of Paul (Ga 3:3), of John (Re 3:17), and of Isaiah (Isa 14:21). A love of the world, a ceaseless round of pleasure, had insensibly corrupted his heart, and produced, for a while at least, a state of mental darkness. The grace of God deserted him; and the son of the pious David--the religiously trained child of Bath-sheba (Pr 31:1-3), and pupil of Nathan, instead of showing the stability of sound principle and mature experience became at last an old and foolish king (Ec 4:13). His fall is traced to his "love of many strange women."

I Kings 11:4 when Solomon was old--He could not have been more than fifty.
his wives turned away his heart after other gods--Some, considering the lapse of Solomon into idolatry as a thing incredible, regard him as merely humoring his wives in the practice of their superstition; and, in countenancing their respective rites by his presence, as giving only an outward homage--a sensible worship, in which neither his understanding nor his heart was engaged. The apology only makes matters worse, as it implies an adding of hypocrisy and contempt of God to an open breach of His law. There seems no possibility of explaining the language of the sacred historian, but as intimating that Solomon became an actual and open idolater, worshipping images of wood or stone in sight of the very temple which, in early life, he had erected to the true God. Hence that part of Olivet was called the high place of Tophet (Jer 7:30-34), and the hill is still known as the Mount of Offense, of the Mount of Corruption (2Ki 23:13).

I Kings 11:9-12. the Lord was angry with Solomon--The divine appearance, first at Gibeon [1Ki 3:5], and then at Jerusalem [1Ki 9:2], after the dedication of the temple, with the warnings given him on both occasions [1Ki 3:11-14; 9:3-9], had left Solomon inexcusable; and it was proper and necessary that on one who had been so signally favored with the gifts of Heaven, but who had grossly abused them, a terrible judgment should fall. The divine sentence was announced to him probably by Ahijah; but there was mercy mingled with judgment, in the circumstance, that it should not be inflicted on Solomon personally--and that a remnant of the kingdom should be spared--"for David's sake, and for Jerusalem's sake, which had been chosen" to put God's name there; not from a partial bias in favor of either, but that the divine promise might stand (2Sa 7:12-16).


Wes


When I survey the wondrous cross on which the Prince of Glory died, my richest gain I count but loss and pour contempt on all my pride. - Isaac Watts
Wes #24483 Mon Apr 25, 2005 7:55 AM
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Hi Marie,

This kind of question always makes me a bit, well, uncomfortable.

I really think it's inappropriate to even give an opinion about a person's ultimate salvation; let alone say, "No, he wasn't saved" or "Yes, he was saved." Salvation is of the Lord from beginning to end and the Judge of all the earth will judge righteously.

We all have opinions. And we all think about such things. But it seems to me that the only good that can come from such speculation is if one's contemplation of the Biblical record of another person's life leads to examination of one's OWN life according to the Scriptures.


Trust the past to God's mercy, the present to God's love and the future to God's providence." - St. Augustine
Hiraeth
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SR, Solomon's lack of (recorded) repentance doesn't mean he died a reprobate because no man ever repents of all sin as properly as he ought (otherwise he would attain moments of sinless perfection) and besides, Paul said many were sickly and weak and "asleep" (dead) for partaking of the Lord's Table unworthily, that is, they may have passed away without repenting of that sin. To this we might also add God's affirmation of love for Solomon, and also Solomon's love for God (1 Kings 3:3); true repentance is surely a heart of love - albeit frequently very imperfect and virtually indiscernible love - for God, rather than an abandonment of certain sins, as even the unrepentant Ahab "went softly" when he started to feel the rod of God on his back.

gotribe #24485 Tue Apr 26, 2005 7:14 AM
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gotribe said:
Hi Marie,

This kind of question always makes me a bit, well, uncomfortable.

I really think it's inappropriate to even give an opinion about a person's ultimate salvation; let alone say, "No, he wasn't saved" or "Yes, he was saved." Salvation is of the Lord from beginning to end and the Judge of all the earth will judge righteously.

We all have opinions. And we all think about such things. But it seems to me that the only good that can come from such speculation is if one's contemplation of the Biblical record of another person's life leads to examination of one's OWN life according to the Scriptures.

For the most part I agree with you here, but I think in the case of Biblical figures we can usually say a little more. Since the Bible is inerrant, I think we can take what it says about the hearts of those in it. For example, would you say we shouldn't speculate on the salvation of the thief on the Cross because we can't know that person's ultimate salvation. The Bible clearly says he would be in Christ's presence that day. What about Enoch. Should we not speculate on his ultimate salvation? To say that we cannot say whether either one of those people were ultimately saved would be a denial of the inerrancy of Scripture in my opinion. In the case of other Biblical figures, it might be more difficult to say one way or the other, but in some cases I think we can infer from Scripture clearly whether they were saved or not (David was a man after God's own heart). In the case of any non-biblical people where we don't have the infallibility of Scripture to rely on, then I would agree with you that it's impossible to comment on a person's ultimate salvation.

John

john #24486 Tue Apr 26, 2005 7:37 AM
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You make a good point, however, I still think that in the case of Enoch and the thief on the cross, there is a difference. One doesn't need to speculate. Same thing with Judas.

I guess my point was this: this is an opinion poll with no context. Just "Yes, he was saved" or "No, he wasn't saved" "I don't know." If it were in the context of a discussion about perserverence of the saints or something, then at least the speculation would be with reference to a doctrine or principle under consideration.

I don't know. Maybe it's just me.


Trust the past to God's mercy, the present to God's love and the future to God's providence." - St. Augustine
Hiraeth
gotribe #24487 Tue Apr 26, 2005 12:14 PM
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gotribe,

Personally, I am more than confident that Solomon is now among the departed saints in glory praising God. Why? 1) Two entire books of the inspired Word of God which he authored are included in the Canon plus various Psalms which the church has sung for centuries. Let's look in comparison to the "counsel" offered by Job's friends. When we read their advice, we have to be very discerning and bring all the rest of Scriptural truth to bear upon them to determine whether there was any truth in them. But when we read the Song of Solomon (Song of Songs) there is no such need to do this for, IMHO, the entire book is speaking of Christ and His eternal love for His church. We are told that Scripture was written by: "For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but <span style="background-color:yellow">holy men of God</span> spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost". Surely, one would be hard-pressed to justify an exclusion of Solomon from being one of those "holy men of God. 2) Solomon certainly wasn't the only man who has sinned against God yet was redeemed by the precious blood of Christ. In fact, can we even name one? <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> That we don't read specifically that Solomon repented of some of his sins is of no consequence for surely there were committed an inestimable amount of sins by myriad people who the Lord has redeemed over the centuries and who never repented of every single one of their sins. If it is absolutely necessary that one repent of every sin before death, I for one have no hope of glory for doubtless there have been many sins which I have committed which I have not consciously repented. Further, is repentance of every individual sin a prerequisite for salvation? To affirm such is to introduce salvific synergism, is it not? A believer is all too conscious of the fact that they have committed sins unknowingly, and thus as David prayed, so do they pray, "Who can discern [his] errors? Clear thou me from hidden [faults]." (Psalms 19:12)

So, just on those two items alone, I feel more than confident that Solomon is to be counted among the children of God and looked upon as an example of how great the mercy of God extends and the power of Christ's sacrifice to save; even the worst of sinners. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

In His Grace,

Pilgrim #24488 Tue Apr 26, 2005 12:24 PM
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You've laid it all out very neatly and I have no issue whatsoever with your analysis.

I probably should just let it rest because I am not in disagreement with you or John. As I said, I was (and still am) uncomfortable with the poll question. Feel free to tell me I'm wrong about that! That's really been my only contribution. . .sigh. . .


Trust the past to God's mercy, the present to God's love and the future to God's providence." - St. Augustine
Hiraeth
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Pil,

Thanks for that wonderful (and I will say most-convincing) argument <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


True godliness is a sincere feeling which loves God as Father as much as it fears and reverences Him as Lord, embraces His righteousness, and dreads offending Him worse than death~ Calvin
Pilgrim #24490 Tue Apr 26, 2005 6:55 PM
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I'm gonna go with my black baptist roots on this one and say..."Let the Chuuch say AMAAN! AMAAN AGAIN! AND AMAAN ONE MO' TIME! <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" />

Good response Pilgrim


tj
"-that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection..."
MarieP #24491 Wed Apr 27, 2005 9:26 AM
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SemperReformanda said:
Robert Shaw writes in his commentary on the WCF's section on perseverance:

God, as still his father, "chastened him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men;" but never suffered a his mercy to depart away from him."—2 Sam. vii. 14, 15.

*chuckle This must be the part where he got 800 wives.

I think a better question is How could anyone be saved before the atonement?


Josh
"...the word of God is not bound."--2 Timothy 2:9
doulos #24492 Wed Apr 27, 2005 11:13 AM
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doulos said:
I think a better question is How could anyone be saved before the atonement?
And that is definitely a subject for another thread! But I'll give you a very quick and simple answer by quoting a biblical text which couldn't be much clearer:


Galatians 3:6-9 (ASV) "Even as Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned unto him for righteousness. Know therefore that they that are of faith, the same are sons of Abraham. And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand unto Abraham, [saying,] In thee shall all the nations be blessed. So then they that are of faith are blessed with the faithful Abraham."


IF you are wanting to discuss this further, then you should start a new thread in the Theology Forum. [Linked Image]

In His Grace,


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simul iustus et peccator

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MarieP #24493 Wed Apr 27, 2005 2:38 PM
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SemperReformanda said:
Pil,

Thanks for that wonderful (and I will say most-convincing) argument <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

An unassailable argument, I would say (if I can do so without Pilgrim's latent pride rising up!)

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