|
Tom
Kelowna, British Columbia, Canada
Posts: 4,893
Joined: April 2001
|
|
|
|
Forums31
Topics8,349
Posts56,545
Members992
| |
Most Online2,383
Jan 12th, 2026
|
|
|
#24747
Wed May 04, 2005 4:53 AM
|
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 416
Addict
|
OP
Addict
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 416 |
John Murray- “The Guidance of the Holy Spirit”- From The Collected Writings of John Murray, I: 186ff
Rev. Charles R. Biggs
The question must be asked, “How does the Holy Spirit guide and direct the people of God?” Professor Murray answers this question with an answer in line with the Westminster Confession of Faith, Chap. 1, “The Word of God in the Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments is the only infallible rule of practice, as it is also the only infallible rule of faith” (186).
Because we are in a different situation from those who lived during the apostolic times, we must only be guided by the Spirit from the “perfect and sufficient” rule of faith, which are the Holy Scriptures. It is dishonoring to God and his Spirit to expect a direct revelation of God other than that which he has provided in his Word illuminated by the Spirit. We must never abstract the operation, the revealing of God by the Spirit, from the infallible and sufficient rule of practice in the Word even if we deny that God is directly speaking to us, we must also forbid to follow “feelings,” “impressions,” or “convictions,” even the “peace” that some believers say that they have after making certain decisions.
Professor Murray confidently asserts for our encouragement under God’s care that “the Word of God is relevant to every situation in which we are placed, and in one way or another, bears upon every detail and circumstance of our life” (187). Rather than seeking the Lord to give us direct revelation, we should be content with God’s provision in his word to guide us as to what is his will for our lives, what he commands us and expects of us concerning him, and to know how great the love of Christ is to us. All this is found in God’s word, which when illuminated by the Spirit, directs us in the way God has ordained for us to be directed.
A warning is in order for those who do not follow the instruction of the only rule of faith and practice; to those who would follow a whim, a feeling, or an impression when it may be just an “undigested portion of beef” which Dickens’s character Scrooge experienced when he saw a ghost. Professor Murray writes, “The moment we desire or expect or think that a state of our consciousness is the effect of a direct intimation of us of the Holy Spirit’s will, or consists in such an intimation and is therefore in the category of special direction from him, then we have given way to the notion of special, direct, detached communication from the Holy Spirit. And this, in respect of its nature, belongs to the same category as belief in special revelation” (188). We must be content to interpret the Scripture to that portion of our life that needs God’s illumination, lest we are deceived by the wicked one.
Ultimately, rather than seeking direct revelation from God we must pray as Paul prayed for the Colossians: “…and desire that you might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding; that you might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, increasing in the knowledge of God’ (Col. I:9, 10). It is tragic how many in the history of the Church have been misled by flights of fancy into interpretations that were not guided by Scripture, but by a supposition that they were mystically receiving revelation directly from God.
We must pray that we are not deceived by seek the Lord in his Word, his revelation, guided by his Spirit so that we might rightly know Him and his will for our lives. We must not seek a “fresh word” but an inscripturated word which God has given to us in the canon, graciously illumined for us by the Holy Spirit who knows all things, even the deep things of God. As the Apostle Paul taught Pastor Timothy:
“All Scripture is inspired by God and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for the instruction which is in righteousness, that the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto every good work” (II Tim. 3: 16, 17).
CRB From The Highways "How are Believers Guided into 'All Truth'?
Jesus said, ‘When he, the Spirit of truth. has come, he will guide you into all truth’ (John 16:13). The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of truth. He is truth essentially in himself, and he is the one who leads the church into all truth.
All spiritual, divine, supernatural truth is revealed in Scripture. To come to know and to rightly understand this truth in Scripture is the duty of all, according to the means which each enjoys and the duties which are required from them. To make this possible the Holy Spirit is promised to them.
Of ourselves, without his special assistance and guidance we cannot arrive at a true knowledge or a right understanding of the truth revealed in Scripture.
There are three errors to avoid. Some pretend to be guided by the Spirit and neglect the written Word. Some despise the teaching of the Spirit and trust to their own understanding of the Word. Others reject both the Spirit and the Word and go after another rule and guide.
To none of these is the promise of the Spirit given. They are left to their foolish, corrupt imaginations.
Scripture is the believer’s rule and the Holy Spirit is his guide.
Do we continue in prayer, and abound in prayer, as we ought, for that Spirit who alone can lead us into all truth? For that unction which teaches us all things with assurance and experience? There is no duty in this world more acceptable to God than fervent prayers for a right understanding of his mind and will in his Word. On this, everything else depends. I realize that because of sin and our slothfulness that it is very difficult for people to find biblical truth. But it remains hard for me to understand why much of the church can not seem to be lead into it. I look at the Pentecostals, the liberals, the RC's and even some believers in the reformed ranks and It becomes hard for me to understand why there are so many people who profess Christ but are not being led by the Spirit to read their bibles and to know God. What's harder for me to understand is how so many seminary's are in error. It really is frustrating to see people graduating from seminary and being so unbiblical and full of error. I continue to try to understand how it is that church leaders continue in error for their whole lives without ever having a second thought about their erroneous biblical interpretations? Y.B.I.C, Dave.
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. - Galatians 2:16
|
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,904 Likes: 1
Permanent Resident
|
|
Permanent Resident
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,904 Likes: 1 |
Dave, some good questions.
Why?
Here are some possibilities. Some are raised in the church who have not been regenerated. They somehow think they are Christians because of their surroundings and their false profession. Others are drawn to church in order for their needs to be met. There are some who are true believers who have been mis-fed by their liberal churches, and for some reason they do not get out from under those teachings. Then, we just have the sin factor in people's lives.
I think with seminaries that there is a pride with their intellect. They want to expand on what others before them have taught, or re-formulate a particular doctrine. They see themselves as too smart to keep their emphasis on the basics, and they spend an inordinant amount of time on the non-essentials. Again, its sin with us wanting to do it our way.
Last edited by John_C; Wed May 04, 2005 7:38 AM.
John Chaney
"having been firmly rooted and now being built up in Him and established in your faith . . ." Colossians 2:7
|
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 15,026 Likes: 274
Head Honcho
|
|
Head Honcho
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 15,026 Likes: 274 |
Dave, I really think John hit the nail squarely on the head with his several reasons he gave. So, let me address your question from another direction. It should not be surprising to see or even expect what you are lamenting about. Why? Because it is written that only "a remnant" will be saved. Yes, the size of that remnant will vary according to God's eternal counsel where in some periods of history He has been merciful to grant revival to the Church and call many to Christ and sustain them throughout their lives. But those are the exception to God's typical operations among Adam's fallen race. Accepting this truth should dispel any notion that the present kingdom of God on earth will be a dominant force in the world, be constantly increasing in numbers, and especially that at least the majority of those who profess to be Christians really possess what they profess. Of course Baptists like to think that with few exceptions everyone they dunk is saved. Post-millennarians want to believe that things are going to get much better and true Christianity will someday dominate the earth before Christ returns. The emergent church promoters have their ideas on how to "win the world for christ" [notice the small "c"]. And the list could go on to include all those who hold to some form of misguided expectation or doctrine of "love" that the majority of professing Christians are in fact actually regenerated and destined for glory. A quick reading of the letters to the Churches in the book of Revelation should tell you that these ideas are not in line with history nor with Scriptural teaching. What was it that the Lord Christ said about the end times, particularly that period of time just prior to His return?
Luke 18:7-8 (ASV) "And shall not God avenge his elect, that cry to him day and night, and [yet] he is longsuffering over them? I say unto you, that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless, when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?"
And let's not forget about those several warnings given to us in Scripture by the inspired authors, for example:
1 Corinthians 11:19 (KJV) "For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you."
2 Peter 2:1-3 (ASV) "But there arose false prophets also among the people, as among you also there shall be false teachers, who shall privily bring in destructive heresies, denying even the Master that bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. And many shall follow their lascivious doings; by reason of whom the way of the truth shall be evil spoken of. And in covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose sentence now from of old lingereth not, and their destruction slumbereth not."
1 Timothy 4:1-2 (ASV) "But the Spirit saith expressly, that in later times some shall fall away from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of demons, through the hypocrisy of men that speak lies, branded in their own conscience as with a hot iron;"
2 Timothy 3:1-6 (ASV) "But know this, that in the last days grievous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, haughty, railers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, without natural affection, implacable, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, no lovers of good, traitors, headstrong, puffed up, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God; holding a form of godliness, but having denied the power therefore. From these also turn away. For of these are they that creep into houses, and take captive silly women laden with sins, led away by divers lusts,. . ."
2 Timothy 4:1-4 (ASV) "I charge [thee] in the sight of God, and of Christ Jesus, who shall judge the living and the dead, and by his appearing and his kingdom: preach the word; be urgent in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching. For the time will come when they will not endure the sound doctrine; but, having itching ears, will heap to themselves teachers after their own lusts; and will turn away their ears from the truth, and turn aside unto fables."
Such passages of Scripture should strike fear in the heart of everyone who names the name of Christ, IMHO. What saint today does not pray, "O Lord, let me not be deceived by false teachers and carried away as so many have that have gone before me. Hold me firm and close and give me a generous portion of Thy Holy Spirit that I may discern rightly and do that which is pleasing in Thy sight according to Thy precious Word. Yes Lord, keep me on those 'old paths' and may my heart never lose that yearning created in it for Thee and all that which is good." I thus persevere knowing that God has promised to preserve me.
Psalms 1:1-6 (KJV) "Blessed [is] the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful. But his delight [is] in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night. And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper. The ungodly [are] not so: but [are] like the chaff which the wind driveth away. Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous. For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish."
In His Grace,
![[Linked Image]](http://www.the-highway.com/pilgrim/pil_sig2.gif) simul iustus et peccator![[Linked Image]](http://www.the-highway.com/Smileys/pencil.gif)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 23
Plebeian
|
|
Plebeian
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 23 |
I've been very saddened to find how many disciples Blackaby has. It boggles my mind to find people that consider me heretical because I deny what Blackaby teaches. Imagine! I try to make the point made above and am accused of being unspiritual.
Another thing I often encounter is the rebuttal that the Spirit illuminates Scripture in a personal sense. This taken to mean that someone's personal interpretation of a verse is inspired over and above the 'general' interpretation arrived at via the Historical/Grammatical hermeneutic.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 277
Enthusiast
|
|
Enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 277 |
Puritan wrote:
We must never abstract the operation, the revealing of God by the Spirit, from the infallible and sufficient rule of practice in the Word even if we deny that God is directly speaking to us, we must also forbid to follow “feelings,” “impressions,” or “convictions,” even the “peace” that some believers say that they have after making certain decisions. Disregarding this is the tip of the root of the Charasmatic movement, in my opinion, which produces many who are just as happy to make do with a "God Told Me" supposition. They generate a jillion buffed and polished preachers every year who have this same disregard for "The Word". I've known a bunch of otherwise humble men called to serve as ministers that were very puffed up by their knowledge. They were quite happy to wave around their doctorate or their masters degrees as if the breeze they generated could blow away the problems the church was having. Pilgrim wrote:
Of course Baptists like to think that with few exceptions everyone they dunk is saved. I've done a little reading on this--recently. Mostly thanks to some excellent links I've found here and some nudges I got from SemperReformanda and others. Plus I go to a Baptist Church. I think the reason they do this is because they've become too enchanted with man's contribution to Salvation. It's all all about me and Jesus. Good ol' God, my buddy. Like he comes in boxes of a dozen and don't forget to order enough for every one from the Baptist Bookstore, or Lifeway. Most are still attached enough to the real roots of Baptists to be wary of admitting that someone could lose their salvation but close enough to the edge that when someone quits the church or is caught in some heinous sin that they think, "Wow, he must not have ever been saved." Looking back over the years I am very surprised at how much has been done by churches where I was a member that was based on this sort of thing. "I've got a real feeling about this." The days when you could be sure that the church was being moved by the Holy Spirit are becoming a rarity. Gang, the problem is that it's stopped being about God. And this may be a no brainer to you all but when I look at this in light of some of the Bible study I've done over the past week or so its pretty obvious even to me. Even though--and I am sick of this but I'll put it in here--the first sentence of the first chapter of Rick Warren's Purpose Drivel Church book is "It's not about you," it IS becoming more and more about man. It's all about making man happy because thats were the money comes from, right? And MONEY is MINISTRY right? Of course not. I'm reminded of a huge old red oak I once saw in a friend of mine's yard. It was a huge old thing--probably six feet in diameter at the base. But when you walked around the other side it was hollow and burned out. Looking closer you could only see a few branch tips budding out--the rest of the branches were dead. It was alive but just barely. And all around there were others sprouting.... My hope is that somehow, even if the damage can't be undone in the church, that at least the new ones can be saved and grow into the strength that is their heritage. Of course we shouldn't be surprised that the church is full of heresy but I think that we should do our best to stand against it. I'm not sure how, but thats what I believe.
Last edited by doulos; Wed May 04, 2005 11:14 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,040
Persnickety Presbyterian  |
Persnickety Presbyterian Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,040 |
This is not really a response to your questions—I think the others have already answered them quite well—but I wanted to mention that I had the privilege of sitting under Rev. Biggs this weekend. He is an excellent and solid preacher, very devoted to the faith once delivered.
Kyle
I tell you, this man went down to his house justified.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 216
Enthusiast
|
|
Enthusiast
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 216 |
Hoping that I'm staying on topic I would like to pose a question. Tonight during our Wednesday night Bible study we looked at Hebrews 11:1-16 regarding faith. The direction that was taken was that of faith in God and how God may be leading us by faith in certain areas of our lives i.e. decisions, work, ministry etc. I guess I'm looking for a proper exegesis here...would you personally apply the text this way? If not, how so (I do have my own thoughts regarding this issue)? Also, I do believe that the Scriptures provide all that we need regarding personal matters but when we're speaking about specifics (ex. should I take this job, move to this city etc.) how do we determine when we are being led by the Spirit. It just seems that in reading the responses in this thread we are to avoid such "impressions" or "leadings" or is the focus more on being "so called" led to certain doctrinal beliefs in which we find many who have fallen into error as a result of their false impressions attributed to the Holy Spirit. Am I making sense? <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/shrug.gif" alt="" />
tj
"-that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection..."
|
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 15,026 Likes: 274
Head Honcho
|
|
Head Honcho
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 15,026 Likes: 274 |
thredj said:
Also, I do believe that the Scriptures provide all that we need regarding personal matters but when we're speaking about specifics (ex. should I take this job, move to this city etc.) how do we determine when we are being led by the Spirit. It just seems that in reading the responses in this thread we are to avoid such "impressions" or "leadings" or is the focus more on being "so called" led to certain doctrinal beliefs in which we find many who have fallen into error as a result of their false impressions attributed to the Holy Spirit. One of the best answers to your question(s) can be found here: Discerning God's Will, by Sinclair Ferguson.
simul iustus et peccator
|
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,904 Likes: 1
Permanent Resident
|
|
Permanent Resident
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 1,904 Likes: 1 |
tj,
This will pale as to Pilgrim's Sinclair Ferguson's book suggestion in its depth. However, I wrote the following points in the back of my Bible during a sermon on the subject.
Being Sensitive to the Holy Spirit Guidance
1- Know the Bible
2- Prayer
3- Biblical Principles
4- Counsel of Mature Christians
5- Through your Thinking
6- Peace of Mind
7- Circumstances
Just remember the top of the list is more important than the bottom. IOW, circumstances should be the caboose.
John Chaney
"having been firmly rooted and now being built up in Him and established in your faith . . ." Colossians 2:7
|
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 277
Enthusiast
|
|
Enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 277 |
This post has stuck in my head because I've gone through Experiencing God (Like most Baptists...throw 'em a DT package that promises growth and they're all over it). I thought the thing was pretty boring, actually. Its only good point seemed to be that it encouraged more Bible study/memorization.
Why so down on Henry? (Start another thread if you have to.)
Josh "...the word of God is not bound."--2 Timothy 2:9
|
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 23
Plebeian
|
|
Plebeian
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 23 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 15,026 Likes: 274
Head Honcho
|
|
Head Honcho
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 15,026 Likes: 274 |
And where is this "simple answer" you referred to on that website? Do you have a more direct URL to an article, statement, or something other than just the home page? <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/scratch1.gif" alt="" />
simul iustus et peccator
|
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 23
Plebeian
|
|
Plebeian
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 23 |
I'm sorry if that link didn't work for you. Perhaps it takes me right to the article because I'm registered with their site.
If you don't have the cookie, perhaps you get redirected.
If that's the case then you can sign up and get to it. The sign up requires the usual info, and they don't spam. Worst case is you'll begin getting Greg's quarterly newsletter in the mail (it's good), but I think you can opt out of that also.
Short synopsis:
Scripture doesn't teach that we can expect personal revelation. He does exegesis of key passages that Blackaby misuses.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 15,026 Likes: 274
Head Honcho
|
|
Head Honcho
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 15,026 Likes: 274 |
jyeager said:
If that's the case then you can sign up and get to it. The sign up requires the usual info, and they don't spam. Worst case is you'll begin getting Greg's quarterly newsletter in the mail (it's good), but I think you can opt out of that also. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/yep.gif" alt="" /> it is probably because you need to register before having access to the articles. Now, I'm wondering if you are referring to Gregory Koukl?? I did a bit of research on this man and his education has been at some less than orthodox institutions. Further, Gregory Koukl has been on "Focus on the Family" and also is a regular contributor to The Plain Truth Magazine. Isn't this magazine part of the "World Wide Church of God", founded by Herbert W. Armstrong? In fact, perusing all of the "bios" of the contributors to that site/ministry, none of them have received their respective educations at orthodox institutions. The article to which you referred to may in fact me sound, but from what I have seen, that website/ministry isn't one which I would recommend to anyone. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/rolleyes2.gif" alt="" /> Perhaps you have some better information about these men which isn't revealed in the information available online? In His Grace,
simul iustus et peccator
|
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 23
Plebeian
|
|
Plebeian
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 23 |
I'm very familiar with Greg and his ministry. I have found his teaching to be very sound. You are right that he doesn't come from the institutions that you would hold in high esteem and that he is friendly to the types that you and I would both oppose. If you look closely enough at his teachings you would find a few small things to take issue with (well, I call them small, but can't speak for you).
This article on "Experiencing God" is right on the mark.
Note that he is primarily an apologist, not a theologian. But I haven't found anything in him that tones down my support and respect for him.
Please read his article on EG and let me know what you think.
|
|
|
|
|
0 members (),
167
guests, and
27
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
|
S |
M |
T |
W |
T |
F |
S |
|
|
|
|
|
|
1
|
2
|
|
3
|
4
|
5
|
6
|
7
|
8
|
9
|
|
10
|
11
|
12
|
13
|
14
|
15
|
16
|
|
17
|
18
|
19
|
20
|
21
|
22
|
23
|
|
24
|
25
|
26
|
27
|
28
|
29
|
30
|
|
31
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
There are no members with birthdays on this day. |
|
|
|
|
