<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]To refute you would require resources that I don't have. I would need more commentaries and a knowledge of New Testament Greek. I don't have either. As I said in another post, I am not a theologian. Of course, there are others who could easily refute all of this. </font><hr></blockquote><p> Maybe it is time to begin exploring this A-Mil side a little closer, since there appears to be many unanswered questions in Pre-Mil/Despie. A good place to research is here. You may not consider yourself to be a theologian yet (and we are all learning), but if you stay here long enough you'll become a stronger and more refined one [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/yep.gif" alt="yep" title="yep[/img] And most of all have fun doing it.
<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]Of course, there are others who could easily refute all of this.</font><hr></blockquote><p>I'm sorry you made this statement, my sister. For from the very beginning, when Darby first introduced this error of Dispensationalism, hordes of theologians, pastors and even common laymen wrote against it and showed incontrovertibly that the Bible teaches no such thing. Literally thousands of rebuttals have been written against it and soundly disproving it. The fact that it became popular is no proof that it teaches any truth. Personally, I was taught this stuff when I first was converted. But through God's marvelous providence, it made no sense to me from the beginning and I cast it off as chaff.<br><br>From a totally different perspective, I began studying the Dispensational phenomena from a historical view. I began to understand the circumstances wherein all this happened. It was during this time that the Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses came into being as well as the push by German Liberalism. The spiritual state of the church was pitiful. People were starving for truth but because of their hunger they were devouring anything and everything that came along that satisfied them. The same can be seen in the inception and rise to popularity of Pentecostalism. When the truth once delivered unto the saints is weak or lacking all together, people will grasp at anything within their reach because they lack a firm foundation.<br><br>My hope is, of course, that these dialogs will lead you to a more open investigation and study of these things and that the Lord will reveal to you how much error has been given the Church of the Lord Christ over these past 150 years. I personally believe that things are only going to degenerate in the future; perhaps even until the Lord comes to usher in the New Heaven and New Earth. [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/joy.gif" alt="joy" title="joy[/img]<br><br>In His Grace,
Yes, actually there are inaccuracies in both his both his Study Bible and commentaries. I own them all both in HB and computer versions. Sometimes I like some of the things he says, but many times he is way of base IMHO. And he uses NIV in his commentairy [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/puke.gif" alt="puke" title="puke[/img] <br><br>The Reformation Study Bible is a much better purchase.
Pilgrim,<br>That was a very nice post. I agree, very much, with a lot of what you said, but, of course, not all. At any rate, I will be doing more studying on eschatology and all the rest of the Bible, as well.
Joe,<br>Inaccuracies in Eschatology? Or, other inaccuracies, as well?<br><br>I will buy a Reformation Study Bible when I get the money. <br><br>I wish I had all the money I have wasted in the past on worthless books. I have learned the hard way that you can't go into your local "Christian" bookstore and buy books. Most should be ordered.
There are several and not only in Eschatology. I have found some of his comments about Elders in the church to be incorrect (even his Greek study here) and of course I would not agree with him on Baptism. [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/grin.gif" alt="grin" title="grin[/img] In some of his writings at times he appears to be a 4 pointer and not a 5. The BEST NT commentary you will find bar none and cheaper than MacArthur is the New Testament Commentary by Hendriksen and Kistemaker. This is also coming out even cheaper on Baker's New Testament Commentary Set (12 vols.), Kistemaker, Simon J., and William Hendriksen Libronix CD. This is in Pre-Order status and cheaper now. As soon as they have enough Pre-orders they will make the set and then send it. They do not charge you until shipping.<br><br><ul>William Hendriksen (Th.D., Princeton Theological Seminary) was professor of New Testament literature at Calvin Theological Seminary. <br><br>Simon J. Kistemaker (Ph.D., Free University, Amsterdam) is professor emeritus of New Testament at Reformed Theological Seminary in Orlando, Florida.[/LIST] Reviews: <br><br><ul>If you own the New Testament Commentaries . . . nothing more needs to be said. If you do not own them, you should-that is, if you are a serious student of Scipture.'-The Reformed Review <br><br>'The Bible student who posesses [these] commentaries can dispense with many other books.' -J.C. Maris, Reformation Quarterly [/LIST]
<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]I have learned the hard way that you can't go into your local "Christian" bookstore and buy books.</font><hr></blockquote><p>Now, now.... let's not disparage your average "Christian" bookstore! [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/rolleyes.gif" alt="rolleyes" title="rolleyes[/img] Imagine what people would do without them; I mean where would they be able to find a signed Dr. Phil bobble-head doll? or the latest self-help book? or a "What Would Jesus Do?" bracelet? [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/rofl.gif" alt="rofl" title="rofl[/img] It is sadly true, that nearly every book that I was hoping to find at my local "Christian" curio shop, where the CCM was blaring so loudly the clerk couldn't hear me, I had to special order the book. And that was even an ordeal as none of the clerks or managers ever heard of them, e.g., Jonathan Edwards, Charles Spurgeon, Charles Hodge, etc... They looked at me as if I was buying books written by Jim Jones! [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/hairout.gif" alt="hairout" title="hairout[/img]<br><br>
Johannah,<br><br>Let me reciprocate and say publicly that you are a real "trooper"!! Even "I" am beginning to feel the weight of the number and quality of replies that have been written to you. Most, by this time would be doing this: or this: or even resort to this: .<br><br>What you might not know is that most of us have traveled a long and bumpy road to get where we are now theologically and/or spiritually. The journey has not been all that smooth nor enjoyable at times. But we are certainly glad to have been pushed by some to continue on, especially when we might have otherwise given up. We have left some things behind, which at the time we thought were treasures, but now realize they were burdens that were hindering us.<br><br>May the Lord grant you patience, wisdom and fortitude, as we can no doubt be rather at times. <br><br>In His Grace,
Sometimes we even get plain 'ol [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/bash.gif" alt="bash" title="bash[/img] or [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/argue.gif" alt="argue" title="argue[/img], but we still grow and learn. [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/compute.gif" alt="compute" title="compute[/img] I can't do this [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/hairout.gif" alt="hairout" title="hairout[/img] anymore though. I lost it all my first year here. [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/rofl.gif" alt="rofl" title="rofl[/img]
Indeed they do "normally" do a good job with Scriptures. I am sure you have some books by Reformed Theologians. Anyone who has displayed what you have for the short time you have been here reveals that they have been studious. But, you must follow a careful exegesis of the Scripture. Paul said, [color:blue] The cloke that I left at Troas with Carpus, when thou comest, bring with thee, and the [color:red][i]books</font color=red>, but especially the [color:red]parchments</font color=red></font color=blue>[/i] (2 Timothy 4:13). Now a careful study of this text reveals that [color:red]books</font color=red> and [color:red]parchments</font color=red> is:<br><br><ul>1. "plural", thus indicating that we are to have [color:green]<span style="background-color:yellow;">many</span></font color=green> [color:red]books</font color=red> and [color:red]parchments</font color=red>.<br>2. "older", that is [color:red]books</font color=red> and [color:red]parchments</font color=red> of Paul's time, and thus they are very <span style="background-color:yellow;">[color:green]valuable</span></font color=green>.<br>3. Thus, you should spend MUCH money on [color:red]books</font color=red> (pl), to be biblical and not lose the value of a multi-volume library (spending the equivalent of the value of Paul's library).[/LIST] For some reason my wife does not buy this argument all the time, but it does seem to work well around my birthday. [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/rofl.gif" alt="rofl" title="rofl[/img]<br><br>One good thing here are the book reviews as well (The Book Nook). There are several books that are reviewed on a regular basis by members. This way you get to see the ups and downs of the materials you are reading before you buy. Like Baxter's The Reformed Pastor is a MUST read for any elder, it will bring tears to your heart, but it also has some errors.<br><br>Enjoy!
Johannah,<br><br>I really do hope & pray that you will give thoughtful consideration to what we are saying and re-examine the secret-pretrib rapture [and dispy] against the word of God.<br>There are many good books out there that examine secret-pretrib and dispy in general.<br><br>"the promise of the future" by Cornelius P. venema" (amil)<br>"Understanding Dispensationalists" by Vern Sheridan Poythress ( although I disagree with his Pre-mil)<br>"The blessed Hope" by George Ladd ( although I disagree with his Pre-mil. IMHO, gives a devasting critique of secre-pretrib rapture, also gives a great history of disp, I think you would find quite interesting)<br>Dispensationalism: Rightly Dividing the People of God? Keith A. Mathison (post-mil).<br><br>plus, Piglrim has excellent articles on the highway, including the one that He gave a link to.<br><br>brother in Christ,<br>Carlos
Last edited by carlos; Tue May 13, 20039:11 AM.
"Let all that mind...the peace and comfort of their own souls, wholly apply themselves to the study of Jesus Christ, and him crucified"(Flavel)
<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]"Understanding Dispensationalists" by Vern Sheridan Poythress ( although I disagree with his Pre-mil)</font><hr></blockquote><p>Hmmm, Vern Poythress was my advanced Greek professor when I was at WTS and I can tell you with confidence that Dr. Poythress is thoroughly Amil. [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/grin.gif" alt="grin" title="grin[/img] His book, Understanding Dispensationalists is excellent in that it is 1) irenic in tone 2) hits the core issue that separates [hermeneutics] 3) offers some indefensible arguments against Dispensationalists/Premillennialists. I also had Dr. Poythress for a N.T. class and I must say I've always wondered how I ever got through it. This was before he got married and the demand he put on his students was unbearable. [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/drop.gif" alt="drop" title="drop[/img] I will never forget how some of us agreed to "team up" in groups of five or six in class so as to be able to keep up with his presentation on the overhead projector. The speed that the transparencies were shown was so fast that one simply could not take notes from one to the next. So, with six of us teaming up, we were able to focus on every sixth one knowing that the five we missed were covered by our mates. [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/rofl.gif" alt="rofl" title="rofl[/img]<br><br>As a not to much an aside, his book, The Shadow of Christ in the Law of Moses is also an excellent read.<br><br>BIO: Vern S. Poythress received a Ph.D. in mathematics from Harvard University, a Th.D. in New Testament from the University of Stellenbosch, South Africa, a M.Litt. in New Testament from the University of Cambridge, a Th.M. in apologetics from Westminster Theological Seminary, an M.Div. from Westminster Theological Seminary, and a B.S. from California Institute of Technology. He is presently Professor of New Testament Interpretation at Westminster Theological Seminary.<br><br>In His Grace,
![[Linked Image]](http://www.the-highway.com/pilgrim/pil_sig2.gif)
![[Linked Image]](http://www.the-highway.com/Smileys/pencil.gif)
![[Linked Image]](http://www.the-highway.com/Smileys/Deliberate.gif)
or this: ![[Linked Image]](http://www.the-highway.com/Smileys/Sofa.gif)
or even resort to this: ![[Linked Image]](http://www.the-highway.com/Smileys/friday.gif)
.<br><br>What you might not know is that most of us have traveled a long and bumpy road to get where we are now theologically and/or spiritually. The journey has not been all that smooth nor enjoyable at times. But we are certainly glad to have been pushed by some to continue on, especially when we might have otherwise given up. We have left some things behind, which at the time we thought were treasures, but now realize they were burdens that were hindering us.<br><br>May the Lord grant you patience, wisdom and fortitude, as we can no doubt be rather ![[Linked Image]](http://www.the-highway.com/Smileys/nudge.gif)
at times. ![[Linked Image]](http://www.the-highway.com/Smileys/giggle.gif)
<br><br>In His Grace,
