On a recent email discussion the question was asked in light of all the examples of the recent martyrs and first century christians are Christians allowed to fight back?
Peter
If you believe what you like in the gospels, and reject what you don't like, it is not the gospel you believe, but yourself. Augustine of Hippo
When Christians are attacked by persons not operating under authority of government, Christians are not under the constrains of Romans 13:1, 2; Titus 3:1; and 1 Peter 2:13, 14.
speratus said: When Christians are attacked by persons not operating under authority of government, Christians are not under the constrains of Romans 13:1, 2; Titus 3:1; and 1 Peter 2:13, 14.
Really?(sorry been busy but I didn't forget about you.) Then when does these verses apply?
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"You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.' But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if anyone would sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. And if anyone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to the one who begs from you, and do not refuse the one who would borrow from you. "You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? And if you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect. (Mat 5:38-48 ESV)
Also what about the examples of the Apostles themselves. Many were killed outside of the legitimate governing authority. Paul himself was stoned by a mob and left for dead outside the city.
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But Jews came from Antioch and Iconium, and having persuaded the crowds, they stoned Paul and dragged him out of the city, supposing that he was dead. (Act 14:19 ESV)
Are you saying that Paul should have gone down swinging in this scenario?
Peter
If you believe what you like in the gospels, and reject what you don't like, it is not the gospel you believe, but yourself. Augustine of Hippo
For the sake of the gospel we allow our selves to be persecuted. But for any other sake we have a right to defend our selves and our families. from those who attack us "for evil" purposes. God would exspect no less from us than defence of our families from cut throat thieve's. We also have a right to enlist in the military and join in on wars , that are justifiable war's that protect our country.
But since when? does a christian have a right to go to war over a tea tax?Just because they are not being represented ?
was this country the USA founded on a just war policy? it seems to me it was founded on a rebellion of the english government God had first placed .And there for a rebellion against God's commands on how we are to act torward government authorities God placed over us. But God still blessed us with all good thing's. But then God's way's are not our way's ,thanks be to God only.
Last edited by packsaddle; Tue Nov 01, 200511:25 PM.
packsaddle said: was this country the USA founded on a just war policy? it seems to me it was founded on a rebellion of the english government God had first placed . And there for a rebellion against God's commands on how we are to act torward government authorities God placed over us.
Didn't that english government establish colonial governments and then revoke the authority and rights previously granted to those colonies? Didn't those colonial governments then have the authority and the right to sever their relationship with the British Crown? Didn't the citizens of those newly independent states have the Christian duty to defend their states from foreign attack?
packsaddle said: was this country the USA founded on a just war policy? it seems to me it was founded on a rebellion of the english government God had first placed . And there for a rebellion against God's commands on how we are to act torward government authorities God placed over us.
Didn't that english government establish colonial governments and then revoke the authority and rights previously granted to those colonies? Didn't those colonial governments then have the authority and the right to sever their relationship with the British Crown? Didn't the citizens of those newly independent states have the Christian duty to defend their states from foreign attack?
I was taught in "public school" that the reason for the rebelion was over a tea tax. They taught me it was called the boston tea party . it was american history class. It was a citizen rebellion. Not a government rebellion.
but you bring up some interesting point's I guess you are saying than the south had a right to a confiderate government.Since the u.s. government latter gave states also the right to govern? well I honestly do not know.
well getting back to the main point. I was taught in american history the rebellion was over a tea tax. And from What I was taught it was a "citizen" rebellion Not a govern ment rebelling against another Government. perhaps I and many other's were taught incorrectly?
Chief of sinner's though I be, Jesus still died for me.
but you bring up some interesting point's I guess you are saying than the south had a right to a confiderate government.Since the u.s. government latter gave states also the right to govern?
Not necessarily. Britian reneged on its end of the deal with the colonies so the contract was breeched. It could be argued that the United States government was following the Constitution and the southern states should have proposed an amendment to permit their succession.
Individual southern citizens might have understood their Christian loyalty to powers that be to lie with their state or perhaps with the national government.
