The Highway Forums General Discussion Open Forum Men's and Women's studies

I heartily agree that the Pastor primarily, along with the Elders, are responsible for the spiritual instruction of their congregation. However, as it is in any relationship where there are two or more parties, each is accountable to the Lord for themselves. What I am trying to say, having been there, is that although a Pastor/Elders may reasonably fulfill their responsibilities and in a heart-felt manner, it doesn't guarantee a particular result. To continue with your analogy of the Navy, in which I also served, there can be instances of insubordination and even mutiny among the crew. My point is that we should be careful not to make a "god" out of a man who has been called to serve in the Pastorate or Eldership. They do have certain and specific responsibilities as shown from their qualifications (cf. 1Tim 3:1-7; Titus 1:5-9). And, they have been given some authority over those under their care. But what they do not have is the innate "power" to guarantee results. That power belongs to the Holy Spirit. So, let us not put the entire "blame" upon mortal and finite men, although called of God to serve in their respective offices for all the failures of those under their charge. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

In His grace,

<img src="/forum/images/graemlins/scared.gif" alt="" /> THE MESSAGE! I can't hear you! <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" /> Joe your going to make me learn bible greek aren't you. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

From PCANET

"Ministers of the Word equip lay Christians to minister to one another in various other ways and with various gifts so that the whole church may be built up. Lay Christians may teach one another in an informal fashion and may exhort one another, but the work of preaching is reserved exclusively by God for those whom He has called and appointed as Ministers of the Word."

By this it appears they would reject having a class taught by a lay-person, as a class would be formal. A class on doctrine is hardly "informal".

Steve

I dislike The Message as much as you do, but even these "nearly inspired" paraphrases stumble upon the truth at times. Eugene H. Peterson, the author of The Message, was founding pastor of Christ Our King Presbyterian Church in Bel Air, Md., years and professor at Regent College (Professor of Spiritual Theology) in Vancouver, British Columbia, for 6 years. He taught biblical languages at New York Theological Seminary. Even Peterson admits that The Message should not be used from the pulpit!

Greek will drive you crazy, but not as crazy as Hebrew/Aramaic. Neither are easy, but well worth your time, "if" you finish the complete curriculum (Grk I & II or Heb I & II. You "possibly" can do Level III Heb at RTS Orlando by directly contacting Dr. Mark Futato or Level III Grk by contacting Dr. Chuck Hill) <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Note, that the statement you quoted specifically mentions "preaching", i.e., the exposition of the Word of God during the formal gathering of the church for worship. It does not mention "teaching" during informal gatherings, e.g., Sunday School, mid-week Bible Studies, home meetings, etc. If your understanding was true, then Sunday School and Bible Studies would be a rarity indeed. I know of no mortal man who has been able to tap into the divine attribute of Omnipresence. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

In His grace,

I wonder if a major reason is that they just don't think it's important! My own pastor (in my old charismatic church) was actually offended by my interest in theology! "Oh doctrine doctrine doctrine. Can't you just love the Lord?" It was suppposed to be about feelings and motivation, not about "mere facts."

I think lots of men don't participate because they are not told why it's important to study theology. And/or, in the case of my old charismatic church, the study of theology was considered "dead works," and held in low regard compared to "living worship" which was all touchy-feely stuff, and their version of spiritual warfare wasn't sound doctrine opposed to false (and thus damaging) doctrine. Rather it was "binding Satan" and "taking dominion" - through prayer, music, "body ministry," etc. The Bible was just a source for "proof-texting" whatever the "Spirit" led the Pastor to do.

When I left that church I wrote the pastor a letter about why doctrine matters so much to me - and why it should matter to everyone who claims to belong to God. Can anyone "just love the Lord" without doctrine? Impossible.

Churches need to get their people to see why the study of doctrine is so vitally important - not just to those who teach and to synods and councils, but to every individual believer.

-Robin

I suspect that, whether or not we will admit it, the Women's Lib. movement over the past few decades has denigrated manhood to the place that we have become "spiritually feminized" and have forfeited our positions as leaders.

Well thanks but if I study greek it would be from some self teaching course or something like Mounce's Greek for the rest of us. I'd just want to study enough to be dangerous. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" />

A pastor friend once told me that knowing a little bit of Greek is worse than not knowing any at all. It can cause one to misunderstand a lot of the meaning behind the written Word.
If you are going to learn Greek, endeavor to master the language.

Tom

Gil,


This all reminds me of a story about a woman and man that anyone may read in Genesis 3 and also reminds me of a quote from John Calvin:


IMO, the feminization of, and degenerate gains by homosexuals in our churches and culture are pure and simple judgments from our Lord.

Denny

Roms 3:22-24

To everyone:

This is a question I have been pondering: if a church does not offer good studies in the Scriptures and doctrine (which may very well be due to lack of interest from the laity)--what do you think about a member's turning to a study sponsored by a group such as Community Bible Study or Bible Study Fellowship as an alternative?

I guess the problem I have with some of these is that in a officially nondenominational study, it can be hard to address doctrine--but can this be offset by some means?

Theo

I think you have brought up a good point. Heretics and others prosper when the church does not teach the importance of doctrine. It makes it easier for them to decieve people.

Shouldn't every believer study theology? Male or female...isn't that our responsibility?

Yes every believer should study theolgy. The church should help them to make sure they dont go of in the wrong direction.

<img src="/forum/images/graemlins/yep.gif" alt="" /> Indeed it is everyone's responsibility to study "theology". See here: Every Man Must Be A Theologian by Dr. John Gerstner.

Although some of the more recent reasons given why men in particular or people in general do not show any interest in functions where theology or even indepth Bible study is offered may have some merit. But even though some of the fault may rest upon others, e.g., Pastor's weak preaching, teaching, the church not offering such teaching opportunities, parents failing to rear their children in this area properly or at all, etc., etc.... what must not be ignored nor diminished is that IF one is truly regenerate, i.e., the Holy Spirit dwells within, then BY NATURE, since it is the Holy Spirit Himself Who creates a new nature/disposition that is inclined toward God and the things of God, there will be a deep-seated desire/propensity to know God through the study of His Word. There is no denying that the weakness of the flesh, the remnants of our sin-nature, the influence of the world and the Evil One through the various avenues mentioned in this thread will sometimes or even often dampen that natural inclination to study the Scriptures and/or theology proper. But that natural love for God and His Word cannot be totally extinguished nor will the indwelling Spirit allow the individual to "starve to death".

What I am trying to do here is to make sure that we consider BOTH: 1) Man's responsibility, which most have focused upon as reasons for no attendance and little to no interest, and 2) God's sovereignty manifested in His "preservation of the saints" by the indwelling Holy Spirit and the transformed nature of His people resulting from regeneration. There are a multitude of "reasons" for this phenomena of low/no attendance and/or interest in the study of theology/Bible. But are there many that can be said to be legitimate "excuses"? Can the "blame" always be put on external factors; people, places or things? Or in fact, can these other things be faulted at all but rather they are simply additional influences that feed, further or foster a more fundamental and critical problem, i.e., a heart problem?

In His grace,