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#30506 Sat Jan 14, 2006 11:12 AM
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What is the diferences in theology between PCA and OPC?


-- I was predestined to be an Arminian, but chose instead to be a Calvinist, swallowed the TULIP bulb

knoxandcalvin #30507 Sat Jan 14, 2006 12:09 PM
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knoxandcalvin said:
What is the diferences in theology between PCA and OPC?
Here is the OPCs reply to your question (half way down the page). The OPC is generally more pressing on theonomy, Reconstructionism than the PCA, however the PCA of late has been getting more liberal in areas of worship, doctrine, etc. in their churches. The PCA is accepting the ministries of such individuals as Max Lucado (baptismal regeneration, etc.) and others as "scriptural." Thus, both are having their struggles.


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J_Edwards #30508 Sat Jan 14, 2006 5:09 PM
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WHAT!!!???!!! You're kidding! I didn't know that! How in the world. . .

What do you mean by "the PCA is accepting the ministries of such individuals ans Max Lucado and others as "scriptural"? Is this PCA wide or just certain presbyteries or seminaries?


Trust the past to God's mercy, the present to God's love and the future to God's providence." - St. Augustine
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gotribe #30509 Sat Jan 14, 2006 11:25 PM
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gotribe said:
WHAT!!!???!!! You're kidding! I didn't know that! How in the world. . .

What do you mean by "the PCA is accepting the ministries of such individuals ans Max Lucado and others as "scriptural"? Is this PCA wide or just certain presbyteries or seminaries?

I'd like to know more about this, too . . .


Kyle

I tell you, this man went down to his house justified.
knoxandcalvin #30510 Sat Jan 14, 2006 11:28 PM
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knoxandcalvin said:
What is the diferences in theology between PCA and OPC?

Officially their theologies are virtually the same, i.e., they both hold to the Westminster Standards. In practice, the OPC tends to encourage stricter conformity to the standards while the PCA is more relaxed. Also, the OPC generally has more traditional worship services than the PCA.


Kyle

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Me, too.

I haven't met anyone in the PCA who would give any creedance to baptismal regeneration. Surely, Joe is not linking the AA guys with Lucado.


John Chaney

"having been firmly rooted and now being built up in Him and established in your faith . . ." Colossians 2:7
gotribe #30512 Sun Jan 15, 2006 3:58 AM
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RTS is having Max Lucado speak at their graduation ceremonies this year. The PCA is of course heavily influenced by "academics," and as goes the academics, so can go (note, I did not say "will go") the denomination. Several PCA Churches are using his books to teach classes: i.e. Covenant Presbyterian Church, etc. In addition, he has had extreme influence on such men as RC Sproul, who endorsed his book, Christ in Easter and D James Kennedy, with ECT, etc. The corruption of doctrine is coming, it is here, it is growing by leaps and bounds. One local PCA Church teaches The Ragamuffin Gospel , others are teaching McLaren's junk. A cancer is spreading.


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John_C #30513 Sun Jan 15, 2006 4:25 AM
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John_C said:
Me, too.

I haven't met anyone in the PCA who would give any creedance to baptismal regeneration. Surely, Joe is not linking the AA guys with Lucado.
I did not <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/nono.gif" alt="" /> say that the PCA was endorsing "baptismal regeneration" (though some of their pastors are into hyper-Kuyper covenantalism and embrace presumptive regeneration/presumptive election, which in some ways is worse <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/puke.gif" alt="" />), but I mentioned Max Lucado and in parenthesis next to his name I put the phrase "baptismal regeneration, etc." indicating one of Lucado's false beliefs.

J_Edwards #30514 Sun Jan 15, 2006 8:01 AM
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Oh my....

A very close and very knowledgeable friend of mine tells me that it takes only about 40 years for a denomination with a firm, Biblical foundation to go apostate. Some longer, some shorter. The Confessional standards are supposed to prevent that but they are "interpreted differently" farther down the line.

One thing that gets my dander up though, is that it seems like the good guys are the ones who have to leave everything they've built and start all over again while the "bad guys" (liberals, apostates) take over. Why can't we make the bad guys be the ones to leave?

HMF!
-Robin

Robin #30515 Sun Jan 15, 2006 12:32 PM
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God is building His Kingdom, while man builds his denominations (i.e. their own kingdoms). Though many denominations begin honorably enough for the glory of God alone and His Kingdom, they soon begin building their own dreams. God is gracious though and uses both the good and the evil of denominations for His own glory. He always reserves to himself His unfrozen chosen (as opposed to the denominational frozen chosen) that will not bend the knee to Baal. As to why the “right” leave and the denominations stay, is very complex. Some of it today deals with property rights (the denomination or the denomination church owns the property), centers of politics in the Church, money, etc. Of course, then there is the false teaching, easy believism, tickling ears, etc., because the kingdom always has its reprobates. I am reminded of Abraham wondering and looking for a city whose builder and maker is God (Heb 11:10). At times the true Christian will be as “a stranger in a foreign country” (11:9) when it comes to his denomination. However, in it all God is glorified. He shows beyond all doubt that it is He alone who is building His Kingdom and not denominations. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/BigThumbUp.gif" alt="" />


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Having been a member of both (OPC now) I agree with CovenantInBlood.

Hmmm, I have not seen any signs of Theonomy or Reconstructionism in the OPC's New Horizon's magazine in the 8 yrs I've been a member...much less preached from the pulpit. Our pastor is a Vos man...

lazarus #30517 Thu Jan 19, 2006 10:40 PM
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Lazarus,

Please enlighten those of us unfamiliar with the OPC. Who (or what) is Vos?

Relztrah #30518 Fri Jan 20, 2006 9:35 AM
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Vos was Professor of Biblical Theology in Princeton Theological Seminary. He taught such men as, J. Gresham Machen, John Murray, Ned B. Stonehouse, and Cornelius Van Til. Many call hin the Father of Reformed Biblical Theology. He wrote several books.


Reformed and Always Reforming,

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