The Highway Forums General Discussion Open Forum Columbia Evangelical Seminary

What is your knowlege/opinion of this place?

Doing a little search with it became quite evident that this is a non-accredited Pentecostal institution. Their "Statement of Faith" is extremely weak, especially for a seminary. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/rolleyes2.gif" alt="" /> I could confidently conclude that it is semi-Pelagian/Arminian in theology and all other areas consistent with that view.

Thanks Pilgrim - the reason I ask is because the Roman Catholic apologists and sworn enemies of Dr. James White claim his doctorate is bogus...coming from CES.

Whether or not White's degree is "bogus" or not would depend upon one's definition of the term. Granted, with what I know of Columbia Evangelical Seminary, I personally wouldn't put much credence on it either, but I would be very hesitant to call it "bogus", which to me means "phony", i.e., obtained through nefarious means, e.g., identity theft or one purchased on the Internet! <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/giggle.gif" alt="" />

However, I would guess that these RC "apologists'" intent is to discredit White and thus as a result his arguments which he has set forth against the Roman State Church and its doctrines. It is unfortunate today, that even in many Reformed denominations/groups a "degree" has become akin to Aaron's "Golden Calf". In regard to James White, it isn't a matter of what degree(s) he holds or lack of them, but rather are his arguments truth, precise, profound and cogent. IMHO, the bulk of his apologetic against the RCC are exactly that and thus since the RC "apologists" can't offer anything to disprove those arguments, they have resorted to ad hominem attacks. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/rolleyes2.gif" alt="" />

Well <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/takethat.gif" alt="" /> there goes my reason for applying at the Universal Life Church seminary and getting that free ministerial liscense.

...don't laugh, an associate (in another city working for another company) told me about his special day presiding over his son's wedding with his special 'license' from that place.

...creepy...

blessings, laz

Hi guys,

I was surfing around for some info on this college and I saw your thread here. I was hoping someone could give me a little direction in this area.

Im currently interested in getting some "formal" training in apologetics. I work full time and I dont plan on becoming a minster, but I would like to be able to lead small groups at church in areas of apologetics. Im an avid reader and well versed with many of the apologetic arguments out there, but I lack any feedback on my direction or thoughts in the area. I was hoping that CES would provide some mentorship and evaluation in apologetics with its degree program.

Since Ive never been to any seminary, can someone give me insight as to if this school (CES) would be a good place for me to get this type of training - considering that I cant go to the nearby Asbury college due to time and $$ constraints.

Thanks for any advice!

codeman,

First of all

I would say you should avoid CES at all costs! There are several good schools out there that would provide you with training in solidly biblical apologetics, aka: "Presuppositionalism". Some of them offer correspondence courses, which would be exactly what you are looking for it seems.

Unfortunately, I can't give you a list of specific schools that you could contact, but I'm sure J_Edwards or perhaps a few others could. What I can recommend, however, is that you pickup any books on apologetics written by the late Dr. Greg Bahsen. For example, see this review here: Always Ready. Although Bahsen's views on "Theonomy" are objectionable, he was very gifted and solid in the area of apologetics. Another excellent author you should consider is Dr. Cornelius VanTil. You can find either of these author's books online at discount prices.

Thanks for the input, Pilgrim.

The school "seems" legit and they have some people on their staff with degrees from notable places like Harvard Dvinity. I liked the fact that they offered so much in the area of apologetics. Ive looked around for other distance/online degrees and I couldnt find any that would allow me to entirely focus on apologetics. I can read on my own and have been doing so for years, but I havent had any critical analysis of my thoughts. CES appeared to be able to do this. But if they are not reliable, then obviously I would be better off not spending the money to enroll. Im always a little skeptical of anything I find on the net, but Im just not familiar enough with seminary schools to be able to tell if this place is using smoke and mirrors.

Anybody else have specific examples or reasons why CES is probably not very credible?

Thanks again!

For study in apologetics (presuppositional is the best way to go) the best two schools (for graduate study) are RTS (John Frame teaches here. He wrote, Apologetics to the Glory of God: An Introduction, Doctrine of the Knowledge of God, and Doctrine of God: A Theology of Lordship, No Other God: A Response to Open Theism, etc) and WTS. Do not go to CES or TTS. TTS boasts about some great classes in Christian Philosophy and Apologetics and has “some” good professors, however their financial department will probably rip you off. They are presently being sued for improper financial practices. IIIM also offers a MA in Biblical Studies (Miami International Seminary uses their material as well), if you desire to study at home (RTS and WTS also have external classes). Another consideration is BTS (they offer a Master of Arts in Apologetics). You may enjoy this site—Mongerism.

Hmmmm, <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/scratchchin.gif" alt="" /> Perhaps it would be good to find out what theological background and/or view you currently hold to. If you really think that having a degree from Harvard Divinity School is "notable" and it gives a school the appearance of being "legit", then methinks there are other issues that should be dealt with first and foremost. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Harvard Divinity School, for example, is certainly "notable", but not for being a Christian institution. They are an apostate school that hasn't taught historic biblical theology for many decades. Put bluntly, Harvard Divinity School simply cannot be considered even remotely "Christian", even allowing for a loose understanding of what Christianity means. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/drop.gif" alt="" />

So, perhaps we should discuss what it is exactly you believe theologically and then we might be better able to recommend an institution and/or material that is consistent with those beliefs. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

In His grace,

I am enrolled at Whitefield Seminary. It is not fully accredited but is gaining a good reputation. Studies are done fully by correspondence, but it's built on a mentoring model. There is local oversight of your studies. Tons of reading! But so far, so good. The entire M.Div program there costs a paltry $9K.

-Robin

Im gonna check out some of the ones you listed J_Edwards. I also saw that Fuller gives certificates for online study and they are accredited.

Pilgrim, you make a good point. I had a suspicion that Harvard Divinity was probably on the liberal persuasion, but I wasnt sure. But that is mostly my reason for posting here. Im pretty ignorant about seminary schools. It is curious though how what appears to be a very conservative evangelical school (CES) would have a graduate of a very liberal school on their faculty. Very strange indeed...
Personally, Im more of the conservative and evangelical persuasion.

Thanks for the feedback. Anybody know anything about Fuller? Any advice on how to pick a seminary? Keep in mind that I have no interest in getting an M.Div. I just want to defend the Christian faith using philosophical, Biblical, scientific, etc. means.

If you don't want a M.Div, you might contact the people at Birmingham Theological Seminary in Alabama and ask them about this certificate program, which you *may* be able to complete largely by distance learning:

http://www.birminghamseminary.org/certap.asp

They work with the Apologetics Resource Center at

http://www.arcapologetics.org/institute.htm

on this program.

But I would agree with Robin that Whitefield Seminary is first-rate, if you could find something there.

Theo

Oh dear!! <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/rolleyes2.gif" alt="" /> I feel like a "heel" in answering you about this query too. "It's a dirty job, but someone's gotta to do it! eh?" <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/giggle.gif" alt="" /> Fuller Seminary is another one to avoid. It isn't nearly as "Liberal" as Harvard Divinity School, but it definitely isn't on the list of conservative schools either. And I'm not very comfortable giving Whitefield the "green flag" either, to be quite honest. Although it is certainly conservative, if the rumours I have come across are true, then it isn't a school that I would consider either. Yeh, I know, that's not really an ethical thing to do, i.e., not provide specifics to my objections. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/sorry.gif" alt="" />

You might want to consider contacting Westminster Theological Seminary. They may offer correspondence courses. And another one you might look into is Northwest Theological Seminary. Both are very conservative and teach "Presuppositional Apologetics".

In His grace,