The Highway Forums General Discussion Theology Discussion Forum Predestination

Nicely illustrated sir. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/BigThumbUp.gif" alt="" />

You know Kathy the whole stream of consciousness posting you should really leave it for your blog or your personal diary. As for listening to beloved57, if you can't see that the rest of us who embrace Reformed Theology are pointing out his gross errors and his heresy regarding his distortions concerning sin and God. Then I suggest you pour yourself a large cup of coffee drink it down and <font size="7">[color:"FF0000"]WAKE UP![/color]</font><img src="/forum/images/graemlins/coffee2.gif" alt="" />

B,

As you know it wasn't meant as a personal diary blog. I was sharing as what I believe appropriate - even as in terms of fellowship, my reservations and honesty .... if that should be inappropriate... I didn't think so.

-Kathy

Well K when people type out what appears to me (and while I did read and take many English classes in the university I am by no means an expert)as stream of consciousness writing with no apparent format or sentence structure I like to point out the idea that perhaps for people to really understand what your trying to say you really need to put it in such a manner that is understandable. Just a thought.

Well b,

I forgot how formal you Calvinists can be. Are you telling me you did not understand my observations/reservations? I realize I am contrary... which is not my reason for posting... (which I think is what you reacted to.) In the name of Christ, there is unity and there are splits and division.... I felt the need to try and express my thoughts, out of conviction, AND honesty AND fellowship.

-Kathy

very good article on predestination , short and sweet !

http://www.asweetsavor.150m.com/erl/truepred.html

Ya know....... well, let me just say that your description is hardly accurate when you say that it is "very good article on predestination". It would appear that your inability to recognize and/or respect CONTEXT and thus come to a true understanding of written material isn't limited to the Bible. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/drop.gif" alt="" /> The article was nothing more than a call for all [true] Primitive Baptists to further their "separation" from everyone and everything else in this world that doesn't hold to the doctrine of "Predestination" which that group allegedly held historically, ad nauseam.

What we have here is a woman who has asked various questions in regard to this doctrine and you come along and provide a link to THAT? <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/bingo.gif" alt="" /> I think my neighbor's chickens could provide as much information about predestination as that article. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/igiveup.gif" alt="" />

Kathy,

What I can tell YOU is that your "observations" are unfortunately inaccurate. First of all "beloved57" is an extremist who renders the Scriptures to his own destruction, which types Peter centuries ago wrote about. (2Pet 3:16) Let's put it another way in case you didn't catch on what Boarnerges tried to tell you . . . "beloved57" is anything but representative of the doctrines known as "Calvinism". Those doctrines are best represented by the various historic and denominational Confessions and Catechisms which were written out of the Protestant Reformation, to which most all of us here would confess are all accurate summaries of biblical truth in the matter of salvation, including predestination, the Gospel, and other core doctrines.

If exposing and refuting error isn't something you approve of then you are very much in the wrong place. What we believe here and which you have been told before, even by me personally, is that there is such a thing called ABSOLUTE TRUTH. And this absolute truth is found in the Bible; God's inspired, infallible, inerrant written word. Further, it is both possible and incumbent upon ALL human beings to know this truth but only as they are given the ability to do so by being regenerated by the Holy Spirit and He indwelling in them. And thus comes unity among those who know and love that truth as it is revealed in the Bible. Yes, there will be and are minor differences on various matters of biblical doctrine. But again, on the essentials of the faith, there is a oneness which cannot be broken. I am not talking about whether or not you should baptize babies or if it is only permissible to immerse or sprinkle or pour water in baptism ..... or any other such nonsense.

Another item you mentioned and which I simply have to respond to is this idea of, at least implied, "intellectual elitism". Of course, to someone who opposes objectivity, propositional truth, cogency, verifiability and accountability, there will invariably come protestations concerning insistence of conformity to truth, which honors Christ and His word, which is the truth. Everyone has the "right" to believe what they want. But they have no right to claim it is truth unless it is verified under the light of Scripture.

Lastly, please consider the place in which you are finding things objectionable to your sensitivities. This is a THEOLOGY FORUM, where people discuss, debate, argue etc., concerning matters concerning God, the Bible, salvation, predestination, et al. You should expect that there is going to be disagreements, especially with those who either do not hold to the biblical doctrines called "Calvinism" or who distort them under that name. If this bothers you then perhaps you would feel more comfortable being involved on a Board that consists of Agnostics where truth is sought but unfortunately elusive. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/shrug.gif" alt="" /> However, we here again hold to propositional truth and believe that it should be proclaimed and defended with accuracy. And we also believe that study of God's Word is a noble thing to do and thus some of us have spent much of our time educating ourselves to be able to accomplish that noble task better with the goal of helping others understand better also. Maybe you think that is a waste of time?

In His grace,

very funny, you know i can come with the word !

Pilgrim,

Calvinism requires one to believe in Predestination to be saved... at some point. Because some of you stated that you didn’t start out Calvinistic. How can one love if one isn’t free to love?

I don’t have a problem with education, or study, etc. But my observation (which is subjectively mine, thus incorrect) is that this topic is The Focus of Reformed Theology. In other words, Predestination is The message that comes through.

I do believe that Truth is absolute... You are convinced ‘Sola Scripture’ indicates TULIP, I am not; there are strong arguments refuting.

I will however, continue to consider this issue.

-Kathy

Wrong again oh ye who is destitute of true knowledge. What you came here with is A word.... a word of darkness and not light. For the light has shined upon your own words and found them to be false and opposed to light and truth.

1 Corinthians 11:19 (KJV) "For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you."

2 Peter 3:14-18 (KJV) "Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless. And account [that] the longsuffering of our Lord [is] salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all [his] epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as [they do] also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know [these things] before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness. But grow in grace, and [in] the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him [be] glory both now and for ever. Amen."

2 Corinthians 10:4-5 (ASV) "(for the weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh, but mighty before God to the casting down of strongholds), casting down imaginations, and every high thing that is exalted against the knowledge of God, and bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ;"

In His grace,

Only ONE individual here has stated such and he has been summarily opposed and refuted by everyone else. What we hold is that one who IS saved will in most all cases come to the place where predestination is embraced and loved. Secondly, what is this off-topic subject of being to love freely? The truth is no one will nor can they love God by nature for the very reason that they are not "free" to do so. For by nature, all men love the darkness and hate the light. (Jh 3:19) Men hate God and all that is truly good from birth because they have a sin nature. (Eph 4:17-19) The Lord Christ taught that only by being born from above by the sovereign work of the Holy Spirit can one even begin to love and be free. (Jh 3:3, 5; 8:31, 32, 36; cf. Isa 61:1; Acts 26:18; 2Tim 2:25, 26)

But isn't "predestination" the topic at hand? In fact, it was you who started the thread. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/giggle.gif" alt="" /> This being so, of course one should expect to find a discussion on that topic. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/scratch1.gif" alt="" />

There are arguments to be found against the Doctrines of Sovereign Free Grace, aka: TULIP, which by the way came about due to 5 points of doctrine held by men who opposed what the Church had held to be true for centuries. Before the Remonstrants issued their objections/rejection of these long-established and held doctrines, there was no such thing as "TULIP" as an official document, which you can read here: The Synod of Dort. And I have yet to read even one "strong argument" that refutes any of the doctrines known as Calvinism; and I am fairly well read. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

In His grace,

Kathy, here is another good article for you to read if you have the time....

http://www.smallings.com/LitEng/Essays/Foreknowledge.html

Pilgrim,

That I brought up Predestination... better yet... I jumped in for irresistible reasons. I have always been plagued by the idea of predestination and right now I am coming to terms with it. anew. IF the Reformed picture is true, I want to surrender to it.

Speculation on this topic is intense to me, and intense to many. Concerning focus: I read somewhere about three distinctions of Reformed Tradition... TR-Traditional, BR-Barely, and CR-(?) Catholic (universal) – TULIP not being the issue of distinction.

I think that pursuing the doctrine of Limited Atonement is not something one can hear until one is ready. Meanwhile sincere seekers continue to respond to words like “let them come freely”. That is partly why I first jumped in this thread (regardless if this view of predestination is correct or not).

-Kathy