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#33460 Sat Jun 24, 2006 2:03 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,040
Persnickety Presbyterian
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Persnickety Presbyterian
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Well, this could be good news: the General Assembly of the Presbyterian Church in America this week adopted an overture (PDF file) calling for a report on Federal Vision/Auburn Avenue theology and the New Perspective on Paul, etc., to determine whether these are in conformity with the PCA's doctrinal standards. The report is to be presented at next year's GA. May God graciously guide the members of the report committee, and strengthen them to condemn these heretical ideas.


Kyle

I tell you, this man went down to his house justified.
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Kyle,

How much of the goings-on in the PCA do you understand. Sometimes its gets confusing. For instance, I read this in regards to the study
Quote
Overture 2, from Rocky Mountain Presbytery requesting a study committee on Federal Vision, was answered in the affirmative. The Bills and Overture Committee had recommended that the overture for a study committee be answered in the negative. A minority of the committee presented a substitute urging that the overture be answered in the affirmative. After extensive debate the minority report was adopted. The final motion calls for the moderator to appoint a committee of seven who are to report to the 35th General Assembly. (Note: Overtures 11 and 23 also dealt with Federal Vision and were answered in the negative. Overture 26, from Missouri Presbytery, requested General Assembly to consider and recommend its Report on Federal Vision Theology. The overture was answered in the negative without prejudice in that the Report will be printed in the GA Minutes, by which it will be made generally available to the Church.)


-- from the PCA byFaith online newsletter.

What was the reason for the Bills and Overture committee to recommend in the negative, and it took a minority report to get it before the Assembly? What was the debate about?

And there was another overture (#22) which dealt with Steve Wilkins and the Auburn Avenue Session that has not been reported the status of?


John Chaney

"having been firmly rooted and now being built up in Him and established in your faith . . ." Colossians 2:7
John_C #33462 Sat Jun 24, 2006 10:36 PM
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John,

<img src="/forum/images/graemlins/ranton.gif" alt="" />
Every time I read such reports I get more irritated and disgusted with the Presbyterian system. How often have we read jokes about Presbyterians and their "committees"? <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/igiveup.gif" alt="" /> While these ecclesiastical politicians play their games, the heretics are out there preaching and teaching their garbage and infecting the minds of the unwary. This has been going on for years now. I certainly am no advocate of making judgments rashly. But honestly, taking years to deal with potential heresy, damnable heresy at that, is totally incomprehensible in my mind!!
<img src="/forum/images/graemlins/rantoff.gif" alt="" />

In His grace,


[Linked Image]

simul iustus et peccator

[Linked Image]
John_C #33463 Sun Jun 25, 2006 3:02 AM
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Persnickety Presbyterian
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Quote
John_C said:
Kyle,

How much of the goings-on in the PCA do you understand.

John, at this point I have as much information on General Assembly as you do, from the online newsletter. So I don't know the details concerning the debates that went on over the overture that was passed.

Quote
And there was another overture (#22) which dealt with Steve Wilkins and the Auburn Avenue Session that has not been reported the status of?

I can't find any information about its status.


Kyle

I tell you, this man went down to his house justified.
Pilgrim #33464 Wed Jun 28, 2006 10:12 AM
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To be honest, both the Presbyterian system and the ECUSA parliamentary mode drive me batty. Too often a "no" means a "yes" and vice versa.

<img src="/forum/images/graemlins/Banghead.gif" alt="" />

ISTM making it all so difficult to understand rather goes against Christ's admonishment of "Let your yes be yes and your no be no."

I can readily understand why the pro-FV/NPP'ers in the OPC would be confused about the status of their cherished beliefs. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/help.gif" alt="" />

How can a report sent up to be "studied" be used to suppress the FV/NPP? <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/hairout.gif" alt="" />


Anne
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I think we are forgetting the ways of addressing these issues are through the courts in the Presbyterian system, not position papers unless they are somehow brought into the BCO constitution.

Wilkins was charged and found within the views of the WCF by his Presbytery. Of course, his Presbytery is only made up of 9 churches with strong loyalties to him. I see why there are no church plants in that Presbytery. There are some looking into ways of challenging the Presbytery ruling, and supposedly they will know something by October.

As with you, I don't see how the OPC can pat themselves on the back for doing something with FV from their GA last week.


John Chaney

"having been firmly rooted and now being built up in Him and established in your faith . . ." Colossians 2:7
John_C #33466 Wed Jun 28, 2006 11:19 AM
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Unless "study" means study in the sense of learning something, not evaluating it?

In that case it being sent for "study" (you know, that's one of those words where the more you say it the dopier it sounds) would mean it is to be grasped and mastered, not gauged and appraised.

Maybe? <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/scratch1.gif" alt="" />


Anne
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Not to sound like a proverbial broken record, but as I wrote in my "rant", the major problem I have is this incessant dragging of the feet. NPP, FV, Shepherdism has been well known since the late '70's and popularized over 5 years ago. This matter has been bantered around for years without anything definitive resolved by ANY of the Presbyterian denominations. In the meanwhile, these heretics have had free reign to preach and teach these errors in their respective congregations. The blame does not fall simply upon the GA but also upon those men who hold office in Presbytery and in their individual Sessions.

There is a "wild fire" burning out of control out there and these [Linked Image] are sitting on their thumbs waiting for some committee to "study" the issue?!! [Linked Image] How long do they think they can play around before the forest is totally consumed? The eternal welfare of men's souls are at stake here! [Linked Image]

In His grace,


[Linked Image]

simul iustus et peccator

[Linked Image]
Pilgrim #33468 Wed Jun 28, 2006 1:43 PM
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I can understand them not being anxious to open the report up for amendments and so on, nor to adopt it so it has the force of the WCF, but how hard would it be to state firmly and categorically that there is ONE justification, it is an event instead of a process, and the golden chain of Romans 8:30 holds fast?

And those He predestined, He also called; and those He called, He also justified; and those He justified, He also glorified.

I realize there's the bit in John regarding branches and the vine, but that's an illustration while the above is a clear statement of fact. We should tread warily when it comes to using illustrations and analogies to effectively gut statements of fact.


Anne
Joined: Aug 2001
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"The blame does not fall simply upon the GA but also upon those men who hold office in Presbytery and in their individual Sessions."

My sentiments exactly. Personally, I think it should be handled at the Session level.


Trust the past to God's mercy, the present to God's love and the future to God's providence." - St. Augustine
Hiraeth

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