The Highway Forums General Discussion Open Forum prayer

we had a new pastor come to our church,and she took out the LORDS PRAYER. To me that is wrong,this isn't allowed is it ? in other churchs. every service I have been to we always said the lords prayer,does any body have any thoughts on this, I'm concerned,I think about how a pastor could take away GODS will be done.

neicey <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Niecey,

The Bible tells us, "I do not permit a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man" (1 Tim 2:12), so it's not OK for a woman to be in pastoral authority over men in the congregation. It appears your church is not only missing out on the Lord's Prayer and the phrase "God's will be done" but a biblically qualified pastor as well.

God's will is expressed in more ways than just by using the Lord's Prayer. Scripture is full of expressions of God's will. Based on what you have shared the worship service was out of order and adding the Lord's Prayer to it wouldn't have solved its problem.


Wes

First of all I noticed that you wrote that the "pastor" was a "SHE".. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/rolleyes2.gif" alt="" /> Personally, I would have walked out of the building when it was observed that a woman was acting as an Elder/Pastor of the service.

Secondly, there is no biblical mandate that demands that the "Lord's Prayer" be included in a worship service. Remember, that this particular prayer is more of a model for prayer than it is something to be recited by rote.

The fact that the church is allowing a woman to act as a "pastor" reveals there are far more serious problems involved than that of failing to include the Lord's Prayer in the worship of God. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

In His grace,

PILGRIM & WES

THANKYOU FOR THE POST,YOUR ANSWERS HAVE TAKEN A SMALL WORRY OFF MY MIND.THE BIG PROBLEM YOU HAVE ALSO TALKED ABOUT,THE WOMEN PASTOR ! I'M TELLING YOU I HAVE NEVER MET A WOMEN PREACHER WITH SUCH A CONTROLLING IT'S MY WAY OR NO WAY.WE HAVE LOST PEOPLE FROM CHURCH WHEN SHE CAME IN,MOSTLY MEN.
BEFORE I EVEN KNEW WHO THE NEW PREACHER WAS, WOMEN OR MAN,I KEPT THEN IN MY PRAYERS AND ALSO ASK THE OLD PASTOR TO PRAY FOR WHO IT MAY BE, AS IT TURNED OUT,THIS PREACHER HAS NO LIKE FOR ME AT ALL. THE FISRT TIME WE MET,HER JAW DROPPED AND SHE HAS BEEN MEAN EVER SINCE NO KIDDING,FROM THAT FIRST ENCOUNTER, IT GOT WORSE.

MY DAUGHTERS WEDDING WAS SECOND PROBLEM, MY DAUGHTER HAD ALREADY ASK A ANOTHER PREACHER TO PERFORM THE WEDDING AND IT IS NOT TAKING PLACE IN OUR CHURCH,BUT WHEN HE MENTIONED IT TO THE PASTOR NOW, ALL (YOU KNOW WHAT) WENT THRU HER,WHAT A MEETING THAT WAS,HER TELLING ME SHE IS DOING CEREMONY, WELL AS IT ENDED SHE FOUND OUT THAT SHE IS NOT TAKING CONTROLL OF WEDDING AND IT STANDS AS IS.
WELL THAT WAS NOT OUR LAST ENCOUNTER, IT IS ON GOING SHE SEEMS TO ZERO IN ON ANYTHING I'M INCLUDED IN, IN THE CHURCH.
I HAVE TALKED WITH PEOPLE IN THE CHURCH AND THIS WOMEN PASTOR SEEMS TO WANT ME OUT,WHEN I ASK WHY,THEY SAY YOU STOOD AGAINST HER,AND I SAY I,VE BEEN PRAYING WHAT HAPPENED.

WELL THANKS FOR READING AND POSTING, I NEEDED TO GET THAT OFF MY CHEST. NEICEY

neicey,


I believe that one of the easiest ways to root out a bad church is to see where there is a crystal clear disobedience to the words of God in Scripture.

To not recite the Lord's prayer is not one of them but the "she" certainly is.

We must obey the words of God even if we cannot always understand the reason why or our own "post modern logic" and reasoning might say otherwise.

In this case, it has been my experience that one of the reasons why the words of God forbid the feminization of our churches is quite clear. When women take authority over congregations, the men leave in resentment, and soon to follow is their sons. What's left is a congregation of women and children and the men at home watching football on TV.

Like Pilgrim, when women stand in the pulpit or begin to take over the leadership of the church, it's time for me to walk.

Denny

Romans 3:22-24

neicy,

Unless you have a mechanical problem with your keyboard, please don't use ALL CAPS in your posts. Not only does the use of ALL CAPS make it difficult to read, there exists an generally accepted rule, aka: Internet Etiquette which says the use of CAPS usually signifies "yelling" , or at least emphasis. Used in moderation is fine, of course. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

In His grace,

Sorry everyone. I was not yelling,just chatting away calmly.
I did know, about the caps rule but,it slipped my mind at the time of writing that post. I like using Graemlims to express my self <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/cheers2.gif" alt="" />
neicey

Need some help here in understanding,
I went to Ligonier Ministries,Tabletalk,Get honest answers to honest questions,then to Church Life,the question Should a women hold an office in a church ?

The part I need explained is " now notice,he doesn't I will not allow a women to be a pastor.

Another question I have is if women are allowed to be pastors,and the men are all committee leaders in the church,then does the bible say that it is alright as long as men are making the deciions for the church.

neicy,

The Bible's teaching on this issue is crystal clear, despite some/many today who want to make it otherwise. NO WOMAN is allowed to hold ANY ordained office in the Church, which includes Elder/Pastor or Deacon. Until recently, this has been the historic position held by the Church throughout history.

For a couple of informative articles see here:

- "Women as Office Bearers" - Dr. Wayne Grudem

- "Hermeneutics of Women in Ordained Office" - OPC General Assembly

One need only to read the qualifications the apostle Paul wrote to see that only men are to hold the office of Elder/Pastor.

1 Timothy 3:1-7 (ASV) "Faithful is the saying, If a man seeketh the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. The bishop therefore must be without reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, orderly, given to hospitality, apt to teach; no brawler, no striker; but gentle, not contentious, no lover of money; one that ruleth well his own house, having [his] children in subjection with all gravity; (but if a man knoweth not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?) not a novice, lest being puffed up he fall into the condemnation of the devil. Moreover he must have good testimony from them that are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil."

Titus 1:5-9 (ASV) "For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that were wanting, and appoint elders in every city, as I gave thee charge; if any man[b] is blameless, the [b]husband of one wife, having children that believe, who are not accused of riot or unruly. For the bishop must be blameless, as God's steward; not self-willed, not soon angry, no brawler, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but given to hospitality, as lover of good, sober-minded, just, holy, self-controlled; holding to the faithful word which is according to the teaching, that he may be able to exhort in the sound doctrine, and to convict the gainsayers."

In His grace,

neicey,

I'm sorry but I'm having great difficulty just trying to understand your question.


I believe that your question is: Now notice that he doesn't say, "I will not allow a woman to be Pastor"?

The Scripture verse is:


Please get this: The Pastor teaches! In my church the Pastor is automatically considered one of the ruling elders.

Our Scripture requires careful thought and consideration. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/cloud9.gif" alt="" />

Denny

Romans 3:22-24

Hey Pilgrim, thanks for the renforcement you had given that to me before,but little did I know that what I had read did not mean anything to me,until I could not understand RC Sprouls answer. I believe Wayne Grudem answered my confusion.

neicey <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/BigThumbUp.gif" alt="" />

I'm not personally familiar with "Sproul's answer" and I would have to read it in context before making any further comment. But to my knowledge, unless something has changed, R.C. Sproul, Sr. has always held to the historic, traditional view, i.e., women are prohibited from serving as Elder or Deacon in the Christian Church.

Again, the two passages I provided for you show that Paul restricted the offices of both Elder and Deacon (cf. 1Tim. 3:8-10) to men. It is impossible for a woman to be the "husband of one wife". And thus although there is no definitive statement from Paul stating that women cannot be Elders, due to the language he used, under divine inspiration, it is impossible to conclude anything else. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Glad I could help.

In His grace,

Adopted said
I'm sorry but I'm having great difficulty just trying to understand your question.

Adopted, it would have been better for both of us if RC Sprouls cite gave permission to copy and then post what he said here,when I read the permission,it said no way baby,don't even think about it,( my words not his)you get the idea I hope. Thanks for all your help and what you said in your post rings true about the church,I ask around about how our Bible study was going,and guess what, no men at all,they have changed from three male teachers,to one women teacher and women students.
Thats sad !!

Thank again neicey

neicey,


You're wonderful. Thank you for your appreciation of my input! <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/cheers2.gif" alt="" />

Denny

Romans 3:22-24