The Highway Forums General Discussion Open Forum Christmas

Rose that is the entire point of Christian Liberty if some observe the incarnation of Christ they do so to the glory of the Lord. If you choose not to observe that then do so to the glory of God. Read through Romans 14:4-6 again.

Dear Boanerges, Thank you for responding. Yes, I have re-read the scriptures you quoted. So you are saying then that as long as we regard everything unto the Lord, we can do whatever we like? Can I even attend a mass then if I like, if I regard it unto the Lord, when I know that
it is an abomination to the Lord, as the "Christ-mass" also is? What about the Reformed Martyrs who were burned at the stake, - they could have partaken of the mass instead of refusing it and saved their own skin, saying they were regarding it unto the Lord?
What about the scripture in Philippines then....chapter 3 v. 7-8 "But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. Yea, doubless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ."

I know I have a lot to learn, and always want to have a teachable spirit, but when one is shown the Truth of a matter, how can one possibly not abstain?

Your further comments would be appreciated. Thank you.

English Rose

Rose,

First of all, let's look at the passage referred to by Boanarges:

Romans 14:6 (ASV) "He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord: and he that eateth, eateth unto the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, unto the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks."

What Paul is clearly teaching is that a believer gives special recognition of a particular day with the intent of it being a time of focusing upon the Lord, then it is acceptable and cannot be judged as being sin by another. Secondly, the entire passage in Romans 14 nowhere implies that those things which Scripture teaches as being sinful are acceptable regardless of the intent of an individual. In short, just because a person's motives are pure in their own eyes doesn't make something sinful or does it make it holy. That which is not condemned by God is acceptable in His eyes despite what a person thinks of it. And that is the entire point... if something is not sinful then a believer is free to partake of it and no man has the right to judge another on the basis of what THEY think about it. If God deems it as good, then it is good. One may consider eating certain foods or drinking certain liquids or celebrating certain days as sinful. Thus for THEM, it would be sinful to partake of them. However, unless God's Word has condemned these things, then a believer is free from sin by partaking of them if they so choose.

Secondly, "Christ-mass" is a word that has originated from the mind of man and not God. It is a decidedly different thing than "Christmas", which to many believers designates a day upon which one is to give special thoughts upon the incarnation of the Lord Christ. What each individual does on that or any other day does not profane the historical event, for it is the Lord's day not man's day. The world has always profaned that which is good. In fact, I would be hard pressed to think of ANYTHING which the world has not corrupted by it's own philosophies and for its own sinful use. Do we therefore abstain from EVERYTHING because we are called to separation from the world? We are to live IN the world but not OF it. (Col 2:20; 2Pet 1:4; 1Jh 1:15, 16)

Lastly, just because an author of a book you read condemns the Roman State Church, and rightly so and condemns the wickedness which flows out of its teachings does not and cannot change the fact that God became man at a point in history. Neither can the false teachings and practices of the Roman Church and/or the world change the glory of that special day. And especially, neither the Roman Church nor the world can dictate what a true believer can or cannot do unto the Lord in regard to the TRUTH which is found in Scripture.... not a book written by man. For example, October 31st is a "special" day for most believers. It is a day when the true Church was once again set free from bondage. Yet on this same day, the world celebrates silliness and evil, aka: Halloween (All Hallows Eve). Using your logic, it would be sinful for a believer to give special thanks unto the Lord for His providence in raising up Martin Luther, a Roman Catholic priest no less, to bring deliverance to His people because the world celebrates Halloween.

Personally, I shall never, by God's grace, allow either the world nor even another believer whose conscience is bruised dictate to my conscience what I can or cannot do on any particular day which God's Word has given me freedom to do as I please because the "day" itself is not inherently evil. But Christian Liberty isn't simply the freedom to DO but also to NOT DO that which is good if my actions may cause my weaker brother to stumble, i.e., to go against his conscience and thus sin. Thus there may be times which my freedom must be curbed at specific times and/or places where I know a weaker brother may be present. If I know my brother has the mistaken notion that the drinking of alcohol is sinful, then I would never drink alcohol in his/her presence. I am also obligated to try from time to time to open the Scriptures and show how alcohol is not inherently evil and one is free to partake of it in moderation unto the glory of God. But the weaker brother cannot demand of me that I abstain from all drinking of alcohol because to do so is sin, for it is not. Thus in the privacy of my home I can do as the Lord has given me the freedom to do.

So, in this matter of the celebration of the Lord's birth, since YOU are convinced that this day called "Christmas" has its origin with the Roman State Church and is actually therefore to be called "Christ-mass" and consequently is totally evil, you would be sinning against God if you had anything whatsoever to do with it. However, one like myself, who surely knows that Christ was not born on December 25th, that whatever the Roman State Church or the world dreams up in regard to that day has no bearing whatsoever upon me, I am free to give thanks unto the Lord and celebrate it within the freedom given me according to the Scriptures as I so please. So, on that day I will freely give to those less fortunate, show kindness to those in need and rejoice that Christ has set me free from bondage to sin and reconciled me to God through His precious blood. The "day" itself is pure and good. Wickedness and evil comes from the heart of an individual.

In His grace,

Well Rose Pilgrim's post says it all for me literally, he has articulated in a calm and reasoned manner a much better response than I could generate.

English Rose,

The hosts of the indisputably Reformed radio series The White Horse Inn recently aired a program based on Romans 14, entitled The Weaker Brother, further developing themes of Christian liberty and conscience so well articulated above by Pilgrim. I think you will find their exposition and discussion particularly applicable to issues raised in this thread.

Thank you, Paul, just quickly read your response, cannot do much today, too poorly and it was my Birthday. Husband ill too! Will have to look at it later, but thought the scriptures mentioned were mainly regarding food and drink.

Thanks anyway. English Rose

Dear Pilgrim, I have been hoping you would come in on this matter, for I have high respect for your views, and although very poorly again today, have got the gist of what you are saying and believing according to scripture, with particular note to the last verse of your reply.

Yes, because of what we believe and see the Truth of the matter, it would indeed be sinful for us to partake in any of it. I will print it out for my husband to read, who is very poorly today.

Thank you for taking the time and trouble to explain the scriptures.

Yours, in Christ, English Rose

Thank you for responding. Yes, I see what Pilgrim has explained well, and bow to his spiritual wisdom.

English Rose

In as much, for the most part, most of the participants here take pride in being Reformed, with the early Puritan settlers an example to imitate, it seems strange that so much space is taken up with "Christian liberty", and so little with the matter of Christian discipline ala Puritanism. It is my understanding that the early Puritans in America refused to endorse what has become "santa clause season"


Any thoughts?

Yes my thoughts are that while the puritans are in general well worth imitating they are not by any means without fault. Their efforts to purify the "Church" of all things they considered "papist" went to some extremes in my opine.

Thank you, gil, so glad you are giving some support to my views, as the early church never celebrated any such thing. I have carefully read what Pilgrim wrote, but it does seem that this "Christian liberty" is just carried too far!

English Rose

if anyone wants to research further, there is a website at www.takeheed.net under Christmas/Easter and a booklet written by Shaun Willock, Pastor, in South Africa, with the introduction given, and available to purchase. Shaun himself has a website at biblebasedministries.co.uk

English Rose

PS Please note, I am not trying to judge anyone for what they choose to do, but only wanting the TRUTH.

As mentioned earlier, the Book "The Two Babylons" by Alexander Hislop - I think every true christian should read it!

Rose it may surprise you to know that I have read the book Two Babylons by Alexander Hislop, in fact I have it in my personal library right now. But I must say that after reading it and examining some of its basic concepts I find that Rev. Hislop's research is quite shoddy. In fact it reminds me a lot of another book: Holy Blood, Holy Grail. Please take a moment and read this by Ralph Woodward. Two Babylons a book review.

English Rose,

Dearest Sister Rose, I am still with you. How may we celebrate the same "Holy Day" and be equally yoked with unbelievers? This article from Leadership U, sums up my reservations.

http://www.leaderu.com/orgs/probe/docs/christma.html

Denny

Romans 3:22-24

Denny,

As I do with Rose I also do with you, i.e., to respect your scruples in regard to recognizing or not recognizing a certain day. But what needs to be also recognized is that it is not of necessity that anything deemed "Pagan" and therefore "evil" be inherently attached to an object, e.g., lights, a tree, a gift, et al, nor a specific day.

Romans 14:5-6 (ASV) "One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day [alike]. Let each man be fully assured in his own mind. He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord: and he that eateth, eateth unto the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, unto the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks. . . . 14 I know, and am persuaded in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean of itself: save that to him who accounteth anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean."

One may and should take issue with how a man uses that which is good. For example, partaking of wine is not pagan, wicked, evil nor sinful. However, over-indulging of wine, i.e., drunkenness is sinful. Likewise, should a believer decide to give special recognition to the birth of His Saviour Christ on any particular day, whether it be December 25th, March 10th, July 6th, or any other day, Paul writes that it is acceptable to the Lord and no man may judge him for doing so. If such a man should contradict the biblical account concerning the birth of Jesus with a foreign teaching, then that error must be rejected. But one cannot judge that which is true, i.e., that God became man and was born of a woman in order to save His people from their sins. If a man chooses to decorate his home with festive lights as an expression of his joy over the birth of His Saviour, who is another man to judge him for doing so? Again, are lights inherently evil?

What is unfortunate is that the author of the article you linked to and others who hold to similar views lump everything that they construe to be "pagan" or "evil" into one basket thus condemning that which God Himself has deemed God and thus acceptable. This has always been a problem with men. Another small example is that some condemn any games played with cards, whether it be Old Maid, Crazy Eights, Cribbage, etc., because according to their mind, cards originated with some pagan and/or custom and thus they deem them to be inherently evil. Again, the apostle Paul clearly teaches that this view is in error and most often leads to judgmentalism; a sin odious in itself.

So again, if your conscience forbids you to have anything whatsoever to do with the 25th day of the month of December, then you must follow your conscience else you will sin before the Lord. And, should you judge any of your brethren in regard to how their esteeming that day as one to give special thanks and sing praises to God for His unspeakable gift of the Lord Christ, then you also commit sin. Condemn the hedonism practiced on that day or any other day if you like and most Christians would join with you. Condemn the profaning of Christ's holy name by men on that day or any other day and Christians will join with you. What is required of you and all who name the name of Christ is that we judge rightly, calling that which is evil, evil and that which is good, good. In this we are to emulate our heavenly Father Who is a righteous Judge.

In His grace,