The Highway Forums General Discussion Theology Discussion Forum TWO Covenants!

FROM: TWO COVENANTS ~ The Covenant of God’s Favor

“In Genesis 1, we are told about the institution of the Kingdom of God. In Genesis 2, we read about the establishment of a covenant. The objection that there is no literal or explicit mention of a covenant in this chapter carries no weight, for all the elements of a covenant are to be found here.”


Dear Brethren,

I am not a theologian but “elements of a covenant are to be found” is like saying Lydia’s baptized household must of had infants so we should baptize infants. The Baptist would say in reply, there must have been also children ages 4 through 16 so we must baptize them also. The article begins with an assumption, but Galatians definitively speaks of “THE 2 Covenant”, which the “elements of” doe not literate.

There are literally 2 Covenants. There are other covenants of all sorts through out the Scriptures but the scriptures narrow it down to two in speak about Law and Grace. We need to let the scriptures speak definitively for itself. Below is what I wrote to someone studying the Decalogue. I know the Author is no longer with us and the article is perhaps believed by many or it would not be published for discussion so my hope is as brethren we will not let honor and love for brethren interfere with our understanding while looking at the word. May the Holy Spirit teach us.


What Think Ye of the Decalogue – Ten Commandments

When we say or think of the Ten Commandments, we should include them with the rest of the laws or Covenant given at Mt Sinai. The New Testament teaches that there are 2 Covenants. Understanding of the 2 Covenants will determine Biblically and if not, confuse our worldview towards the saved and unsaved. The 2 Covenants are as follows:
Old Covenant at Mt. Sinai – Law/Works, Bondage & Death
New Covenant of Promise – Faith/Grace, Liberty & Life.

Galatians 4:21 ~ 31).
21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?

22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid (Law/Works), the other by a freewoman (Grace/Faith).

23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the [color:"FF0000"]bondwoman was born after the flesh;[/color]

24 [color:"FF0000"]Which things are an allegory[/color]: for these are [color:"FF0000"]the two covenants;[/color] the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

28 Now we, brethren, [color:"0000FF"]as Isaac was, are the children of promise[/color] (Grace/Faith).

29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? [color:"FF0000"]Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.[/color]

31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

There are various other covenants in the Old Testament but the New Testament describes two and they are the Covent of Law given at Mt. Sinai as oppose to the New Covenant of Grace in Christ Blood. The Decalogue was part of the Laws given at Mt. Sinai. The [color:"FF0000"]Scripture[/color] do not separate Laws given at Mt. Sinai into the Ten (Moral), Judicial and Ceremonial/Sacrificial. When men study God’s Word and build Theological Systems, labels, names and definitions are introduced, which are fine but when compared to scripture with scripture the labels, names and definitions many times cannot be established by the word or God or substantiated by it. Back to the 2 Covenants one of which contains the Decalogue. Christ speaks of the New Covenant, which is in himself.

Mark 14:23-24
23 And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave to them: and they all drank of it.

24 And he said unto them, [color:"FF0000"]This is my blood of the covenant[/color], which is poured out for many.

I Corinthians 11:24-25
24 and when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, This is my body, which is for you: this do in remembrance of me.

25 In like manner also the cup, after supper, saying, This cup is the [color:"FF0000"]new covenant in my blood[/color]: this do, as often as ye drink 'it', in remembrance of me.

Jesus told us not to put the new wine (grace-covenant) into the old wine skin (law-covenant) or new patch on old clothing. Both shall be ruined. A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump says in another part of Scripture. The Christian is no longer under law (old Covenant) because when saved he has graduated from the schoolmaster of the Law of Moses. The professor no longer has any authority over his grades once he has his diploma. We however do not dishonor the Professor (Law/Moses) but in fact establishes it because it is high and holy and is still the Standard for those who are being tutor (to be used to preach to the lost). We are not under it ourselves and in fact must cast it out as the bondwoman (Read this in Galatians 4:4-7). What the Christian experiences is just like Abraham’s family. Although Hagar was cast out, she is brought back and the household is in a struggle. Hagar the bondservant is always trying to dominate Sara although she and her son will never be the Heir. Does this not sound like Paul’s struggle with the law in his members when he cries out OH wretched man.

Mark 2:21-22
21 No man seweth a piece of undressed cloth on an old garment: else that which should fill it up taketh from it, the new from the old, and a worse rent is made. (As mentioned earlier confusion of Law and Grace will tear a Christian up Spiritually.)

22 And no man putteth new wine into old wineskins; else the wine will burst the skins, and the wine perisheth, and the skins: but 'they put' new wine into fresh wine-skins.

Matthew 16:11-12
11 How is it that you don't perceive that I didn't speak to you concerning bread? But beware of the yeast of the Pharisees and Sadducees."

12 Then they understood that he didn't tell them to beware of the yeast of bread, but of the teaching (law) of the Pharisees and Sadducees.

Galations 3:24-29
24 [color:"FF0000"]Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ[/color] that we might be justified by faith.

25 But [color:"FF0000"]after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster [/color] (We need to cast out the bondwoman, (H)agar, the Law of bondage from Mt Sinai, when the seed of promise has come – faith)

26 For [color:"FF0000"]ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.[/color]

27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

29 And [color:"FF0000"]if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.[/color]

When a building is leased, a new lease is signed by the new tenant. No one can hold us to the old Lease just because there are many similarities or EXACT wording. Many people want to blend the 2 leases just like the 2 Covenants because they contain the same Scriptures or references and you cannot legally and should not do that. Remember Jesus being the new Testator. The purposes of the 2 Covenant are entirely opposed to each other in terms of usage although they contain many of the same Scriptures. The Christian lives under the New Covenant by faith in the power of the Spirit to exhibit the Fruits of the Spirit and [color:"FF0000"]against such there is no law.[/color] Living in and under the Spirit is by faith and by asking God for power instead of trying to keep some kind of rule or regulations whether by laws of Sinai or man made Christian religion.

I am not suggesting that we do not work out our Salvation but fighting the good fight is by Faith and for Faith. Let him who steal, steal no more, flee youthful lust, depart from evil etc… If you love Me keep my commandants. Do what the Scripture asked (obey by Faith) about casting out the bondwoman and the Holy Spirit will teach you from the word how to live in the Spirit and walk in the Spirit.

Galations 5:1-9
1 [color:"FF0000"]Stand firm [/color] therefore [color:"FF0000"]in the liberty[/color] by which Christ has made us free (Grace-Covenant)), and don't be entangled again with a yoke of bondage (Mt Sinai Law – Hagar Bondage).

2 Behold, I, Paul, tell you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will profit you nothing.

3 Yes, I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is a debtor to do the whole law [color:"FF0000"](and perfectly)[/color]. (Circumcision is used to equate Law, [color:"FF0000"]if Christians are under law he is debtor to do the whole law including the Decalogue.[/color] Scripture does not set the 10 aside from the Mt. Sinai Covenant of Works – Law)

4 You are alienated from Christ, you who desire to be justified by the law. You have fallen away from grace.

5 For we, through the Spirit, [color:"FF0000"]by faith wait for the hope of righteousness[/color] (sanctification ~ faithing the good faith).

6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision amounts to anything, nor uncircumcision, [color:"FF0000"]but faith working through love[/color] (The just shall live by faith ~ trusting in Christ’s Love).

7 You were running well! Who interfered with you that you should not obey the truth?

8 This persuasion is not from him who calls you.

9 A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump. (As the wine skin and clothing both are ruined, Law and Grace cannot co-exist or else spiritually we will be shipwrecked)

Paul told Timothy to use the law lawfully. The law is for use in preaching to the sinners. When someone is born-again, the School Master of Law is no longer authoritative nor have authority. We Christian’s establish the law, just as all scripture is useful because Jesus did not do away with it because it is still used by the Holy Spirit when we preach to the unconverted for conviction of sin, righteousness and judgment to come.

May God give everyone a ready mind and humility of heart to seek the Spirit in this area. Again, as mentioned our worldview of the unsaved and saved hinges on this and if mixed both the unsaved and save will be ripped apart (spiritually) by our theology.

I Timothy 1:1-10
1 Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus according to the commandment of God our Savior, and Christ Jesus our hope;

2 to Timothy, my true child in faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Christ Jesus our Lord.

3 As I urged you when I was going into Macedonia, stay at Ephesus that you might command certain men not to teach a different doctrine,

4 neither to pay attention to myths and endless genealogies, which cause disputes, rather than God's stewardship, which is in faith-

5 but the goal of this command is love, out of a pure heart and a good conscience and unfeigned faith;

6 from which things some, having missed the mark, have turned aside to vain talking;

7 desiring to be teachers of the law, though they understand neither what they say, nor about what they strongly affirm.

8 But we know that [color:"0000FF"]the law is good[/color], [color:"FF0000"]if a man uses it lawfully,[/color]

9 as knowing this, that [color:"FF0000"]law is not made for a righteous man (Christians), [/color] but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers (Unsaved).

10 for the sexually immoral, for homosexuals, for slave-traders, for liars, for perjurers, [color:"0000FF"]and for any other thing contrary to the sound doctrine;[/color] [color:"FF0000"](Using the Law on or for the Christian is contrary to sound doctrine)[/color]

Galatians 4:4-7
4 But when the fullness of the time came, God sent out his Son, born to a woman, born under the law,

5 that he might [color:"FF0000"]redeem those who were under the law[/color], that we might receive the adoption of children.

6 And because you are children, God sent out the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, " Abba, Father!"

7 [color:"FF0000"]redeem those who were under the law[/color], but a son; and if a son, then [color:"0000FF"]an heir (of Promise)[/color] of God [color:"0000FF"]through Christ[/color].

Blessings in Christ,

Brother Ben

Ben,

I will admit right up front that I am more than a little confused by what you copy/pasted, i.e., the article by the author who is now deceased. I'm not sure what his point was and I'm assuming yours is? <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/scratch1.gif" alt="" />

First of all, though there are several ancillary covenants, the Bible does only know of two main covenants; the Covenant of Works, e.g., that first made with Adam before the Fall and again iterated at Sinai. And, secondly, the Covenant of Grace which was established again with Adam and his spiritual posterity after the Fall and iterated by and in Christ.

The moral law is both part and parcel of man's creation which the conscience bears witness, summarized at Sinai in the Ten Commandments, lived out perfectly in the life of Christ and finally that which becomes a believer's guide to righteousness; i.e., living as Christ did in conformity to it so as to please the Father. As repentance of sin and faith in Christ leads to justification, so keeping the law for a believer leads to sanctification.

For more on the perpetuity and validity of the law to the believer see the articles found here: Praxis - The Doctrine of the Christian Life.

In His grace,

Hi Everyone

My original Post was not intended to stir controversy or confusion, as I understand that this is and can be quite a controversial subject. It is meant to edify and to help those under the weight of the Law due to its use in Sanctification. I was not raised in the Church but was saved one night while crying out to God on my knees. “God if you are out there, I am lost come and save me, I am a great sinner. If people knew my thoughts no one would want to approach me and I can not overcome my sinful thoughts and lifestyle”. The next morning I had this ton of weight (burden)in my spirit lifted off. I had joy unspeakable and the peace that surpassed all understanding. I thought it had something to do with Christianity so I went out and bought a Bible. Devoured it in a year. My Aunt, 4 months after I was saved told me the hunger and thirst for the Word was because the Holy Spirit was leading me.

17 years later and watching 4 Reformed Baptist churches break up, the Lord had taught me why the Law was grieving the Spirit and literally beating the life out those again under the yoke of bondage. This Post is for those who is struggling with what it mean to live by faith, walk by faith and to fight the good fight of faith in the Spirit besides manifesting the fruits of the Spirit, Love, Joy, Peace, Longsuffering against such there is NO LAW. I am not a Charismatic, as the Spirit teaches us to be sober and of a sound mind while enjoying the fruits of the Spirit. Please find my reply to Pilgrim.
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”This month's article presents a look at what Mr. De Graaf calls "Two Covenants".” (From the Post)

Author
The late Rev. De Graaf was a minister in the Reformed Churches of the Netherlands. (From the bottom of the Article)


Hi Pilgrim,

The Author of this months Article is with the Lord and Article of the Decalogue was mine to a friend. The first paragraph of my original Post was my saying that the late Rev. De Graaf does not have scripture support for the two covenants he is writing concerning. The New Testament is clear in telling us what are the 2 Covenants of Law and Grace and how the Christian is to treat both. We are not to be under and are to cast out the Law(s) given to Moses including the Decalogue. The Christian life is to be live out in the power of the Holy Spirit by Faith to overcome the remaining corruption. That is why Paul was fighting the good fight of faith and when he was leaving the world, he said that he has kept the faith, not the laws or have obtain a higher ability to keep the law. Sanctification by the law will revive sin.

Your reply, very much like the Article by Mr. De Graaf, sounds logical but it draws out a lot of writing without quoting or using other scripture for support in its content. Your logic does not support nor refute the scripture references given in my original Post. I have had to learn in order to understand another person’s interpretation I have to look at why they deduce their understanding from the text they speak of and refute it with other scriptures. A wholesale logical system of thinking without that process is just regurgitating much of what another believes. Many times, even misunderstanding what the authors intended to say. If you try to attach scriptures to your reply, it will be difficult to systematically and coherently give a reasonable answer besides having to refute what obvious scriptures that I posted to refute Mr. De Graff’s Article. If you try to scripturally correct my original Post, I believe you will have a difficult time. I do not mean just a verse here or there but good solid sections of scripture and with other scriptures supporting it.

Again, my point for the Post is to help those who are struggling with Sanctification and to show that keeping the Law for Sanctification is pride and from the flesh. If we keep the Law for Sanctification then we can actually start a list and compare it with other brethren to see who is more sanctified than another is at any given time or day. When Jesus said, keep my commandments he is not speaking of the Law, as you believe. He is speaking about the New Covenant of trusting him to overcome by his blood, which takes faith. When a Christian is struggling, the Holy Spirit comes and says, He that is in you is greater than he that is in the world. Faith worketh by Love Galatians 5:6 KJV: For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love. When we see what Christ’s love has done in the Word, will we believe (faith) and be joyful. If we do not believe (faith) then discouragement will continue. If we overcome by the flesh in keeping the Law, then Sanctification will return to that yoke of bondage, as the flesh has no power to overcome. If we feel good about our standing (sanctification) by keeping the law then Christ is of none affect and we glorify in our effort. Furthermore


12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned--
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13 for until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
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14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.


What does it mean “but sin is not imputed when there is no law” yet “Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses”. The idea that there is a Covenant with Adam, the Laws written in the heart and the conscience, both being the same things as to that which was given at Mt. Sinai, is not supported as the above verses indicates. Sinned did kill even when the law was not given. It specifically says that the Law was not until Moses even though everyone dies. Sin is not imputed where there is no Law, nevertheless. The Two Covenant Article and your reply indicates that there was a Covent of works (Law) in the beginning to Adam and the Scriptures teaches otherwise. Being they (the Covenants that does not exist if they did exist) are not related, there is no Perpetuity. Cast out the Law at Mt. Sinai, including the decalogue because it was not for the purpose to sanctify. For those in the middle of this please read my original Post for the purpose of the Law and how the Christian establish it's use.

The whole point of all of this is that we should not create something where the Scripture obviously says there is no such a thing as the Covenant with Adam, he with his wife and try to related to the Law(s) at Sinai that the Christian is not to use for Sanctification but instead cast out. I think the real problem and fear lies in if it is true that we are to cast out the bondwoman how will, is the Christian going to be or get sanctified? We will leave that one alone for now.


Blessings in Christ,

Ben

Chosen,

You may not have intended to stir controversy, but surely anything that is controversial will evoke controversy. Antinomianism or it's sibling progeny NCT which has over the past 20 or 30 years become popular is antithetical to what the Reformed Faith, aka: Calvinism has always embraced. Thus you are going to find much opposition to your view here by most, albeit there are some here who do hold to NCT. There might be one or two Antinomians still lurking in the shadows, however.

Re: Rom 5:13, 14. The proper understanding of this text is that there WAS law in existence before Sinai for the simple reason that "death reigned"; death being the consequence of transgressing the law (cf. "all sinned" v. 12). That entire section shows that the law existed from Adam to Moses and all died due to their transgression of it albeit their transgression wasn't the same as Adam's and even though the specifics of the Decalogue weren't previously written down.

Secondly, everywhere in the N.T. where it speaks of casting out the law, comparing law and grace, etc., are in reference to justification; how can one be made right with God. It is only by grace through faith in Jesus Christ that one is justified. However, justification by grace does not in any way annul the necessity of conforming to God's holy law. It is the freedom from being under the penalty and bondage of the law which Christ provides re: justification. As Paul says:

Romans 7:12-14 (ASV) "So that the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and righteous, and good. Did then that which is good become death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might be shown to be sin, by working death to me through that which is good; --that through the commandment sin might become exceeding sinful. For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. . . . 21-22 I find then the law, that, to me who would do good, evil is present. For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:"

I have already provided you with a link to quite a number of articles written by men far superior to myself which present and defend the biblical teaching of the perpetuity of the law as the means and guide for believers unto sanctification. That believers are obligated to obey the law out of a heart of gratitude and with the desire to be like unto their Redeemer Christ should be most obvious. No believer would deliberately live a life of a murderer thinking that the law is no longer applicable; or likewise steal, commit fornication, lie, et al. The injunctions to live a life of holiness according to the moral precepts of God are plentiful and indisputable.

Let me end by making it utterly clear.... the keeping of the law provides no merit whatsoever since it is impossible for anyone to keep it perfectly. The keeping of the law is alien to salvation by grace. However, a salvation by grace makes one desirous to keeping the law and to the putting on the new man in Christ which is most pleasing to God.

In His grace,

CompScriptScript and Pilgrim,

Let me jump in here for only a short reply. I am in the process of doing a study on Law and Grace. It is controversial, I admit. I have friends on both sides of the issue, so some will fall out with me either way. However, I must be true to the scriptures.

It is absolutely a fact that the Bible teaches of two major covenants, or testaments, the old and the new(read the book of Hebrews, especially chapters 7, 8, 9). I call attention to only two passages: " for the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God" (Hebrews 7:19), and " by so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament"( Hebrews 7:22).

Without getting into a long dissertation, I believe those two verses verify we are under a newer and better covenant. I do not know any Calvinist or Reformed brethren who would take us back to the bondage of the Mosaic law given to natural Israel(unless they may be reconstructionists or dominionists). We are "not under law, but under grace"
(Romans 6:14b). In other words, we are not under the covenant of law. We are not under the bondage of the Mosaic system with all its burdens. Much of it was types and shadows that pointed to the better covenant, the covenant of grace.

With that said, I must say that Pilgrim's point about the law not being done away with is correct. You see even Paul said "shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? God forbid! How shall we that are dead to sin live any longer therein?"( Romans 6:1,2) The same apostle said he had "not known sin but by the law" (Romans 7:7).

To sum up my remarks here, God's grace through Jesus Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law. But the moral law continues. Do you know why? God's standards do not change. Look in the OT,there in the time of the covenant of law, you will find often --- grace. Then look at the NT, under the time of the covenant of grace, often you will find----law. I challenge anyone to read and understand the ten commandments, the Decalogue, found in Exodus 20, and ponder its meaning. Then search the NT, really search it, and you will see every one of the ten commandments repeated in the NT. You may say, what about the sabbath? The principle is there, surely. The apostles established the first day of the week as a day of spiritual rest and worship. The in Hebrews again it says " not forsaking the assembling of yourselves together as the manner of some is--" (Hebrews 10:25)

Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, but did not leave us free to break His law. CompScriptScript, I do not care how many Reformed churches you saw split. There are antinomian churches that split, arminian churches that split, charismatic churches that split, etc.,etc.. I have not heard of Roman Catholic churches splitting, but I don't think either of us would recommend her on that merit. These churches split because of human nature. Perhaps we are in the last days of the last days, but that is another subject for another time.

Well said in a clear and concise manner. I believe we could say that law and grace are mutually exclusive, but yet they are inseparably complementary. Put another way, love by grace is the motive and law is the means by which we serve God and our fellow man.

In His grace,