The Highway Forums General Discussion Open Forum The Death Penalty

The Death Penalty

This is one area that Christians don't always agree on. The Bible doesn't really address this issue in detail- some people call the death penalty murder, but legally- it isn't. Then again- just because something is not legally defined as murder, doesn't mean it's not morally defined as murder (ie. Abortion). I'm curious as to the thoughts you all might have on this subject.

Personally, I would like to see the death penalty abolished IF we could make life without parole really mean life without parole. It amazes me how many people with life sentences find legal ways to minimize their sentence to 20 years- a testament to the skill of America's ever growing population of lawyers. Also- the relative luxury these people live in is quite appalling. Cable TV? Workout facilities? Computers!? Wow...so much for correction.

However, at the end of the day the death penalty does kill a person. Does God sanction killing other lives? Sometimes- there are plenty of examples Biblically, but does that make the death penalty morally right?

1) The Bible certainly does address the death penalty in detail. We first see a definite mandate to put murders to death in the days of Noah. (Gen 9:6) Then we could look at the civil law given to Israel which had several categories of crimes (sins) which were to be punished by death.

• Murder: Num 35:16-21, 30-33; Deut 17:6
• Adultery: Lev 20:10; Deut 22:24
• Incest: Lev 20:11, 12, 14
• Bestiality: Ex 22:19; Lev 20:15, 16
• Sodomy: Lev 18:22; 20:13
• Sexual immorality: Deut 22:21-24
• Rape of a betrothed (engaged) virgin: Deut 22:25'
• Perjury: Zech 5:4
• Kidnapping: Ex 21:16; Deut 24:7
• Promiscuousness of a priest's daughter: Lev 21:9
• Witchcraft: Ex 22:18
• Offering human sacrifice: Lev 20:2-5
• Striking or cursing one's father or mother: Ex 21:15,17; Lev 20:9
• Disobedience to parents: Deut 21:18-21
• Stealing: Zech 5:3-4
• Blasphemy: Lev 24:11-14,16,23
• Desecrating the Sabbath day: Ex 35:2; Num 15:32-36
• Prophesying falsely, or propagating false doctrines: Deut 13:1-10
• Sacrificing to false gods: Ex 22:20
• Refusing to abide by the decision of the court: Deut 17:12
• Treason: 1Kg 2:25; Esther 2:23

In the NT we have the death penalty exacted for: Sedition: Acts 5:36-37

And it is given to the established government to carry out the execution of the death penalty: Rom 13:2-4.

Methinks the references provided qualify as "addressing the issue in detail". <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/scratchchin.gif" alt="" />

2) God certainly condones and even commands the killing of others. All one has to do is give a cursory reading of the OT to see that. However, all the laws prescribing the death penalty under the OT civil law have been abrogated except for murder, which predates the civil law and thus remains perpetually binding.

In His grace,

It is not only morally right, but in some circumstances morally necessary, to put a man to death. God commanded Noah in Gen. 9:6, "Whosoever sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed, for in the image of God made He man." It is a miscarriage of justice for a murderer not to be put to death.

Alright- I read the NT passages first since as I started going through the OT- I saw the laws handed down to the tribe of Israel pertaining to the death penalty. Obviously- many of the old laws of the OT are no longer in effect- especially the old law that pertained to salvation. Do the passages that still condone the death penalty still apply in today's world?

As to the NT, the first passage you gave me (the Acts one) it just an example of someone being killed.

The 2nd one states that those who resist the government bring judgement upon themselves- it seems to me this is Holy Judgement against them. There is a part which I believe is why you mentioned it "...But if you do evil, be afraid, for it does not bear the sword without purpose; it is the servant of God to inflict wrath on the evildoer" But then it goes onto say in verse 8 that we should love one another. If we should show love and understanding- shouldn't we attempt to rehabilitate them instead of killing them? The person is a fellow image-bearer and we are in different times. God did command the killing of many for logical reasons (especially since the Israelites had a tendency to go astray once they conquered a group of people and had their ideas 'incorporated' into their religions', but should we not at least try to show these people love and understanding and attempt to show them the light? Showing love to people who showed no love, sound familiar?

Now, this being said, even a repentant soul must pay for their sins- but a repentant soul is spared the damnation from Him through the sacrifice of His son. Should this not be a model for us too? My $0.02 US.

1) The abrogation of the civil law pertains to the CHURCH because Israel was a "Theocracy". The N.T. Church is not a nation nor is any nation today "God's representative". Thus the exacting of punishments against civil law belongs to the government. The term "wield the sword" is unquestionably a reference to capital punishment.

2) Again, Gen 9:6 pre-dates the Mosaic law and is a universal mandate to execute murderers. The reason given is because one has shed the blood of an "image bearer of God" and the penalty for committing this act against God and mankind is death. I am not about to try and reason against God's perfect will or reason. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Further, that mandate in Gen 9:6 was hardly something novel or new. Even Cain was privy to the punishment for murder and feared that his life was hanging by a thread for murdering his brother Abel. And how was it that he knew about capital punishment long before God specifically spoke of it to Noah? Because by nature, every single human being is born with the law of God written on their hearts and thus none are without excuse.

3) Convicted murders are no more or less needy of hearing the Gospel. It should be made known of their hopeless and helpless condition; not as a murderer though they surely be so, but rather that they are sinners before God and under his just wrath and condemnation unless the Lord should show them mercy and open their minds and hearts to the truth as it is in Christ Jesus and to give them repentance and faith. But their "need" does not abrogate their guilt of murder nor does it abrogate the command of God that they should be put to death for murder.

4) First of all, Christ's vicarious substitutionary atonement is not to be diminished to where it is but a "model/example" for us. Charles Finney with his "Governmental Theory of the Atonement" erred thusly and is now in damnation for it (along with being a sinner without Christ).

Secondly, IF you really want to follow through with your suggestion then logically, YOU should give you life in behalf of a murderer, since THAT is what Christ did for His own. The penalty of death was Christ's sentence and He was not spared from it. The penalty for murder is death and someone needs to die. If not the actual murderer, then who would be his substitute? <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/scratchchin.gif" alt="" />

In His grace,

Amen, well said Pilgrim. Our catholic friend mentioned that we live in a different time,this is true.However, God does not.

The Death Penalty is, essentially, a non-negotiable theologically. It was given in Genesis 9, well before the giving of the Law. Thus, no matter the theological system of the Christian (Covenantal or Dispensational), the death penalty would be prior to the Law and thus applicable today.

Don't forget, Young Catholic, that MANY Catholic groups still uphold the death penalty. The Priestly Fraternity of St Peter does, as well as the currently 'rogue' group Society of St Pius X. Basically ANY of the groups who hold to the pre-Vatican II Latin Mass are in favor of the Death Penalty.

I agree and believe it also applies those who administer it unjustly and even to witnesses who lie.

William

William,
I would agree with you!

One of the straw-man arguments put against those of us who are Christian and favor the death penalty is that we are against justice. "What of those on death row who are innocent?", they claim. "Don't you have compassion?"

Most assuredly we do. In fact, there would be no greater injustice than for somebody to lose their life for a crime they did not commit. We, as Christians, understand this better than any, as our faith is grounded in an innocent Savior who bore the sins of the world yet who was himself sinless. Hence we want fair and appropriate justice, an honest legal system.

How true! So,- our faith is not in the power alone of the justice of men, but the power of righteous judgment alone. Anyone who does not believe in the death penalty, IMO, does not believe in the ultimate judgment for the ultimate crime of murder among men. Not believing this by the liberals has its reward in the filling of our prisons, disrespect with condemnation for the victims of lawlessness, and encourages degenerate men as a bogus "mercy", to every aspect and degree of crime, hatred and violence in our society.

Our righteous God did NOT forgive sin without exacting the just (death) penalty for all of His elected childrens sins, from His own Son.

Bogus mercy, by our own courts, may also include so-called "Christians" who are willing to kill abortion doctors or, blow up abortion clinics, even as disgusting and evil as these clinics are.

Denny

Romans 3:22-24