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John_C
John_C
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Wes said:
I recognize some of your concerns in the books you've mentioned. Have you read "The Pleasures of God" in particular? If so, would you care to comment on it?
Sorry Wes, but I haven't read The Pleasures of God for several reasons, the two most salient are: 1) I don't have time since I have far better books to read on my "to do" list, and 2) given my aversion to Piper in general, I have little desire to read it. If I did it would be with a critical perspective.

Here is a list of links that deal with Piper's "doctrine" of Christian Hedonism which he claims he gleaned from the writings of Edwards and searched the Bible to support it: Articles Discussing Christian Hedonism.

And here is one critique of Piper's book Desiring God--Meditations of a Christian Hedonist , which I think is worth noting: Book Review.

In His grace,


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simul iustus et peccator

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Tom Offline
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John_C said:
Tom, just a quick question

Do Reformed Baptists not allow paedobaptist to join their churches as members. That if far more restrictive than most Presbyterian churches. For the most part as long as someone has a credible profession of faith and seem somewhat teachable, we would not refuse membership in regards to a person's view on baptism. Ordained officers yes, but not membership.

Unfortunately this is the case in many Reformed Baptist Churches. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Perhaps there might be another Reformed Baptist on this forum that would like to say more on this issue, but I sure don't.

Tom

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Pilgrim

I hesitate to discuss this issue, but nothing ventured nothing gained.
I have read many of the critiques of Piper's form of Christian hedonism and although I dislike the term hedonism because of it's connotations with secular hedonism.
However, I must say that because I have read some of Piper's material on the subject as well as watched a DVD on the matter.
It seems to me that most of the critiques problems seem to stem from a misunderstanding, that Christian hedonism is based on pleasure being more important than God. However, I do not see that as what Piper is saying at all.

For example take the following dialogue from Wikipedia.
Quote
Some evangelical Christians object to Christian hedonism's controversial name[3]. It has little historic commonality with philosophical hedonism, however; Piper has stated that a provocative term is "appropriate for a philosophy that has a life changing effect on its adherents." Critics charge that hedonism of any sort puts something (namely, pleasure) before God,[1] which allegedly breaks Ten Commandments' first order: "You shall have no other gods before me." In response, Piper states in Desiring God that "By Christian Hedonism, we do not mean that our happiness is the highest good."
In a nutshell, Christian Hedonism means (in Piper’s words):
Quote
God is most glorified in us when we are most satisfied in Him.

Tom

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Tom said:
In a nutshell, Christian Hedonism means (in Piper’s words):

Quote
God is most glorified in us when we are most satisfied in Him.
Tom,

If you have determined that despite the many, many criticisms of Piper's "Christian Hedonism" doctrine that it is biblically defensible and thus should be adopted as truth, then so be it. However, I simply cannot due to my own study of Scripture and having compared Piper's use of Jonathan Edwards with Edwards' actual writings, taken IN CONTEXT. Even the little quote you used above I find to be unbiblical and also has come under fire and shown to be untenable. Perhaps you haven't availed yourself of even the one link I provided for Wes which provides a very solid rebuttal of that quote which you can read here: Book Review & Critique.

Why not read it! [Linked Image]

Again, this thread's purpose was to suggest GOOD material that could be used to either introduce the doctrines of grace or help increase the existing knowledge of these wondrous biblical truths and see them applied. Some of us have suggested sources which have stood the test of time and the scrutiny of countless others and which continue to be used throughout Reformed Churches. It would seem foolish to me to offer material that has come under so much criticism and which does not cover nearly the breadth offered by these historic documents; especially to novices in the faith. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

In His grace,


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Pilgrim

I am sorry, but I have read the article you provided as well as a few others and although I have changed my mind before concerning issues like this in the past. At this point I simply can not; therefore perhaps the best recourse is to respectfully agree to disagree.

Tom

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I recommend this one. It has lots of Scripture, nice size print and covers major topics. It's called:
Manual of Christian Doctrine by Louis Berkhof. An old book We bought the updated very recent second edition
produced by www.christianlibertypress.com

will take a good year to go through. This is used at the high school level.
we are going through it with our son who is a senior. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/BigThumbUp.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/BigThumbUp.gif" alt="" />


Jude 3
...contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all handed down to the saints.
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Annie Oakley
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Readin, that is a great recommendation. It would provide an excellent foundation for the study group. While it is indeed "theological" it is a general systematic theology that is presented in a manner for the layman to understand and benefit from.

The version you will find here although a little more expensive includes the questions at the end of each chapter otherwise you have to buy separate Q/A books.

Excellent choice!!! <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/BigThumbUp.gif" alt="" />

Last edited by chestnutmare; Tue Sep 16, 2008 8:17 AM.
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The Christian Liberty version DOES have review questions at the end of each lesson included. Though we are going through slowly. So the questions are more like every other lesson or so, for us.

We are just reading two or infrequently, 3 pages a day. Because there is scripture to look up and read, and we do so.

After each list of questions there is a small portion from the Westminster Confession of Faith as it applies.

There may be a quote from Systematic Theology by Berkhof, or from a book called The Doctrine of God by Herman Bavinck.

At the end of the book is the Heidelberg Catechism.

very handy book.


Jude 3
...contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all handed down to the saints.
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