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#42106 Sun Mar 29, 2009 7:00 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 17
Plebeian
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This email was sent to me quite some time ago. I thought it was a very good way to respond to the 'science approach' to God.
God vs. Science

-----A science professor begins his school year with a lecture to the
students, "Let me explain the problem science has with religion." The
atheist professor of philosophy pauses before his class and then asks
one of his new students to stand.

"You're a Christian, aren't you, son?"
"Yes sir," the student says.

"So you believe in God?"
"Absolutely."

"Is God good?"
"Sure! God's good."

"Is God all-powerful? Can God do anything?"
"Yes."

"Are you good or evil?"
"The Bible says I'm evil."

The professor grins knowingly. "Aha! The Bible!" He considers for a
moment. "Here's one for you. Let's say there's a sick person over here and you
can cure him. You can do it. Would you help him? Would you try?"

"Yes sir, I would."

"So you're good...!"
"I wouldn't say that."

"But why not say that? You'd help a sick and maimed person if you
could. Most of us would if we could. But God doesn't."

The student does not answer, so the professor continues. "He doesn't,
does he? My brother was a Christian who died of cancer, even though he
prayed to Jesus to heal him. How is this Jesus good? Hmmm? Can you answer that one?"

The student remains silent.

"No, you can't, can you?" the professor says. He takes a sip of water
from a glass on his desk to give the student time to relax.

"Let's start again, young fella. Is God good?"
"Er...yes," the student says.

"Is Satan good?"
The student doesn't hesitate on this one. "No."

"Then where does Satan come from?"
The student falters. "From God"

"That's right. God made Satan, didn't he? Tell me, son. Is there evil
in this world?" "Yes, sir."

"Evil's everywhere, isn't it? And God did make everything, correct?"

"Yes."

"So who created evil?" The professor continued, "If God created
everything, then God created evil, since evil exists, and according to the
principle that our works define who we are, then God is evil."

Again, the student has no answer. "Is there sickness? Immorality?
Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things, do they exist in this world?"

The student squirms on his feet. "Yes."

"So who created them?"

The student does not answer again, so the professor repeats his
question. "Who created them?" There is still no answer. Suddenly the lecturer
breaks away to pace in front of the classroom. The class is mesmerized. "Tell
me, " he continues onto another student. "Do you believe in Jesus Christ, son?"

The student's voice betrays him and cracks. "Yes, professor, I do."

The old man stops pacing. "Science says you have five senses you use to
identify and observe the world around you. Have you ever seen Jesus?"

"No sir. I've never seen Him."

"Then tell us if you've ever heard your Jesus?"
"No, sir, I have not."

"Have you ever felt your Jesus, tasted your Jesus or smelt your Jesus?
Have you ever had any sensory perception of Jesus Christ, or God for that matter?"

"No, sir, I'm afraid I haven't."
"Yet you still believe in him?"
"Yes."

"According to the rules of empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol,
science says your God doesn't exist. What do you say to that, son?"

"Nothing," the student replies. "I only have my faith."
"Yes, faith," the professor repeats. "And that is the problem science
has with God. There is no evidence, only faith."

The student stands quietly for a moment, before asking a question of
His own. "Professor, is there such thing as heat?"

"Yes," the professor replies. "There's heat."

"And is there such a thing as cold?"
"Yes, son, there's cold too."
"No sir, there isn't."

The professor turns to face the student, obviously interested. The room
suddenly becomes very quiet. The student begins to explain. "You can
have lots of heat, even more heat, super-heat, mega-heat, unlimited heat,
white heat, a little heat or no heat, but we don't have anything called
'cold'. We can hit up to 458 degrees below zero, which is no heat, but we can't go
any further after that. There is no such thing as cold; otherwise we would
be able to go colder than the lowest -458 degrees."

"Every body or object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits
energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit
energy. Absolute zero (-458 F) is the total absence of heat. You see, sir, cold
is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure
cold. Heat we can measure in thermal units because heat is energy. Cold is
not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it."

Silence across the room. A pen drops somewhere in the classroom,
sounding like a hammer.

"What about darkness, professor. Is there such a thing as darkness?"

"Yes," the professor replies without hesitation. "What is night if it
isn't darkness?"

"You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is not something; it is the absence
of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing
light, but if you have no light constantly you have nothing and it's
called darkness, isn't it? That's the meaning we use to define the word."

"In reality, darkness isn't. If it were, you would be able to make
darkness darker, wouldn't you?"

The professor begins to smile at the student in front of him. This will
be a good semester. "So what point are you making, young man?"

"Yes, professor. My point is, your philosophical premise is flawed to
start with, and so your conclusion must also be flawed."

The professor's face cannot hide his surprise this time. "Flawed? Can
you explain how?"

"You are working on the premise of duality," the student explains. "You
argue that there is life and then there's death; a good God and a bad God.
You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we
can measure. Sir, science can't even explain a thought."

"It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully
understood either one. To view death as the opposite of life is to be
ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing.
Death is not the opposite of life, just the absence of it."

"Now tell me, professor. Do you teach your students that they evolved
from a monkey?"

"If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, young man,
yes, of course I do."

"Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?"

The professor begins to shake his head, still smiling, as he realizes
where the argument is going. A very good semester, indeed.

"Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and
cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor, are you not
teaching your opinion, sir? Are you now not a scientist, but a preacher?"

The class is in uproar. The student remains silent until the commotion
has subsided.

"To continue the point you were making earlier to the other student,
let me give you an example of what I mean."

The student looks around the room. "Is there anyone in the class who
has ever seen the professor's brain?" The class breaks out into laughter.

"Is there anyone here who has ever heard the professor's brain, felt
the professor's brain, touched or smelt the professor's brain? No one
appears to have done so. So, according to the established rules of empirical,
stable, demonstrable protocol, science says that you have no brain, with all
due respect, sir."

"So if science says you have no brain, how can we trust your lectures, sir?"

Now the room is silent. The professor just stares at the student, his
face unreadable.

Finally, after what seems an eternity, the old man answers. "I guess
you'll have to take them on faith."

"Now, you accept that there is faith, and, in fact, faith exists with
life," the student continues. "Now, sir, is there such a thing as evil?"

Now uncertain, the professor responds, "Of course, there is. We see it
everyday. It is in the daily example of man's inhumanity to man. It is
in the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world. These
manifestations are nothing else but evil."

To this the student replied, "Evil does not exist sir, or at least it
does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is just
like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence
of God. God did not create evil. Evil is the result of what happens when
man does not have God's love present in his heart. It's like the cold that
comes when there is no heat or the darkness that comes when there is no light."

The professor sat down.


Remember this: had any other condition been better for you than the one in which you are, divine love would have put you there. - Spurgeon
RoadOfLife #42110 Sun Mar 29, 2009 8:50 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
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RoadOfLife let me ask you why was the student silent when the professor asked him this:
Quote
So you believe in God?"
"Absolutely."

"Is God good?"
"Sure! God's good."

"Is God all-powerful? Can God do anything?"
"Yes."

"Are you good or evil?"
"The Bible says I'm evil."

The professor grins knowingly. "Aha! The Bible!" He considers for a moment. "Here's one for you. Let's say there's a sick person over here and you can cure him. You can do it. Would you help him? Would you try?"

"Yes sir, I would."

"So you're good...!"
"I wouldn't say that."

"But why not say that? You'd help a sick and maimed person if you could. Most of us would if we could. But God doesn't."

The student does not answer, so the professor continues. "He doesn't,does he? My brother was a Christian who died of cancer, even though he prayed to Jesus to heal him. How is this Jesus good? Hmmm? Can you answer that one?"

The student remains silent.

"No, you can't, can you?" the professor says. He takes a sip of water from a glass on his desk to give the student time to relax.

Isn't there a biblical answer to the question posed by the professor and if so why didn't the student answer? Not to mention the professor said that this was "the problem science has with religion." In reality its the problem the professor has with Christianity. Why didn't the student ask the professor to explain his problems with Hinduism, Jainism, Buddhism, Taoism, Islam, Neo-paganism, Wicca, Satanism, or Ancestor Worship? After all the generic was used not the specific.

Right about now your probably wondering why I am busting your chops like this, and I will tell you. Today, most Christians are looking for the quick answer, I just need to memorize these 100 responses and I have apologetics down. In reality if some student had tried to do this to any of the teachers I had in college they would have eaten that kid up and spit him out. I know I've seen it done.

But true apologetics is God honoring, it comes from the bible and is used to point out the gospel. It takes in consideration the fact that the person you are speaking to is made in the image of God and has been flawed by sin and so he can't know the truth of God even though being made in His image he displays it in ignorance. (Rom. 1:18) So you have to point out the persons presuppositions.

That thing you got in your email is more like a Chick tract answer to the God vs Science question and in reality would never work.


Peter

If you believe what you like in the gospels, and reject what you don't like, it is not the gospel you believe, but yourself. Augustine of Hippo
Peter #42114 Sun Mar 29, 2009 9:28 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 17
Plebeian
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Plebeian
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 17
Hmm. I see what you mean. Yes, there is a Biblical answer to the professors question, but, either the student didn't know the answer, or didn't know how to explain it.
Just goes to prove that one never can be sure about 'christian' emails unless one searches the Scriptures!

Thanks for the tips
~RoadOfLife


Remember this: had any other condition been better for you than the one in which you are, divine love would have put you there. - Spurgeon
RoadOfLife #42116 Sun Mar 29, 2009 9:34 PM
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 14,046
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Taking the e-mail as a real-life example, just for fun...

1. What would you (this is open to anyone) say was the main problem that was foremost in the professor's mind?

2. How would YOU have answered that problem? In other words, what answer do you think Scripture gives?

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simul iustus et peccator

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RoadOfLife #42117 Sun Mar 29, 2009 9:55 PM
Joined: Nov 2001
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Posts: 418
Road of Life,

Boanerges beat me to a response I didn't feel I had time or energy to write, and he's spot on. My hackles went up the same point--why no biblical answer from the student, if he's going to be bold and articulate enough to give the more acceptable philosophical analogical answer? You can spot these things a mile away--word-for-word transcriptions of dialogues complete with dramatic tones and gestures; the more "real" it sounds the less likely it is to be. And no atheistic professor going down this track would ever fall into the little traps laid by the student. This is the same error that the medieval scholastics fell into when they formulated the classical "proofs of God" which fail precisely because they attempt to operate apart from the authority of Scripture and assume that intellectual persuasion is sufficient to quicken a dead sinner to life.


In Christ,
Paul S
Paul_S #42160 Sat Apr 04, 2009 8:12 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 969
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You know its nice to know when the "smarter than I" members agree with me makes me think there may be hope yet for this old bag of gray matter.


Peter

If you believe what you like in the gospels, and reject what you don't like, it is not the gospel you believe, but yourself. Augustine of Hippo

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