The Highway Forums General Discussion Open Forum On Granting Forgiveness

Is it not beneficial to those who sin, to have their sins confronted? As it has been mentioned in this thread, sometimes people are not even aware of their transgressions against others. Aren't we actually helping them a lot when we point out their offenses to them.

The idea of just "forgiving" everybody all the time seems cowardly and ultimately not very beneficial to the body of Christ. How else will some people become aware of their sinful behavior if they are never confronted?

It is not only beneficial for them, but commanded of us, as we're told in Mt. 18. We just need to make sure they are actual sins committed and not just preferences or quirks that may happen to irritate us. The purpose of confrontation is to bring about repentance and reconciliation, and it is true that some may not even be aware of their sinful action.

Also remember that forgiveness cannot be granted until the sin is repented of. So we don't walk around "forgiving" everyone for sins they don't even know they've committed. That is why we go to them one on one, in humility and love, in hopes of restoration via repentance and forgiveness.

What I mean is simply this:
I Timothy 5:1 "Do not rebuke an older man but encourage him as you would a father, younger men as brothers, 2 older women as mothers, younger women as sisters, in all purity."

We need to reproach another person with great humility, with the intent that repentance take place and reconciliation occur. We should not be overly harsh with a person. Use a tack hammer for a tack and a big hammer for an 8 penny nail and not the other way around.

I agree with you, although I believe that one needs to check their motives before doing so. I.e. take the beam out of our own eye, before trying to take the splinter out of someone else’s.
Sometimes the most loving thing to do is to confront. It is not always easy to know how we should approach it either.
Someone who is open to rebuke and correction will take what is said and learn from it. Others will say something like; who are you to judge me, we are not supposed to judge. In other words they are trying to justify their actions, by acting like the offended.
Although I will not mention the offence, I had a particular occasion in which I was able to present Scripture, asking them what the passage was saying. To make a long story short, he repented.
This is not necessarily typical, but it confirmed to me what the Word of God can do to a fertile heart.

Tom

How wonderful and beautiful to see God's solution in action!

Thanks for the clarification, and I agree with you that our reproof should be appropriate to the offense.

Thanks a lot for the excellent points!

It really does require a lot of prayer, discernment, and spiritual "guts" to do what the Bible says on this issue of reproof/forgiveness/repentance. It would really be a lot "easier" just to let things go, but then there would not be a full restoration of the relationship.

Yes, and I think that's exactly why it isn't being practiced either in churches today, or by individual beleivers. It is not easy, nor is it something we want to do, especially if you are a person who does not like confrontation or conflicts. But, it is the command and solution God has given us, and it is the only way to restore the relationship. I have seen Mt. 18 carried out all the way to full excommunication and was also priviledged to see that person come around to a full and complete repentance. What a blessing and glory to God it brought! I have also had to follow these steps in my own family (not immediate) and have not yet seen repentance there. It is not easy to do, particularly when it's someone in your family. It's almost like a divorce if there is no repentance. The other party in this case has completely cut me and my family off and in so many words told me I was disowned.

Jacy said:

I hope I am not prying too much by asking a few questions. If I am please let me know.

From what you told me about this case, it was a result of you following all the steps of Matt. 18, is that correct?
In other words this person has been confronted after other steps by the local Church.
If so, this person probably goes to the same local Church as you (or did). Since it would be hard to take these steps for someone that goes to another local Church, or isn't a Church attendee.
Is this person still attending the same local Church, even after all these steps were taken? If so (depending on the circumstances) it would make it extremely difficult for all parties involved. It would also seem to me, that the local Church would be condoning this behavior and as such guilty of not disciplining. This will cause division in the local body.

Tom

Hi Tom,

This was (and still is) a very difficult situation. All parties were members of the same church. Steps one and two were taken, but there was a breakdown in the church when it came to the 3rd step. The pastor (no elders, just the one ruling pastor) refused to acknowledge the(obvious) sin(s) of this member and not only failed to carry out that step but castigated us for even approaching this individual. We were told "that's just the way this person is" and we were to overlook it as he had done for years. We were also admonished very firmly to keep it all quiet. At this point, we became the bad guys and were "rebellious" for questioning the pastor.

We did leave the church, as God was using this along with other things to show us that we had been sitting under error and hypocrisy; teaching for doctrine the commandments of man.

So there was a breakdown of the process in that particular local church. The church we are now members of were told of the situation and any attempts to have dialogue between our elders and the former pastor have been useless. So we are now carrying out step 3. It does get a little confusing when another church body becomes involved, but in that case we have to consider we are all one body.

Ironic twist to this story - WE were put under "church discipline" (their convoluted form of it) for leaving their church. The reason given by the pastor was "rebellion" because he was not giving us permission to leave. He told us it was not God's will for us to leave and he would never agree to it. They are still waiting for us to "repent" and come back to the church.

It's really incredible how some will twist and pervert God's word for their own ends.

Just a few questions, can you tell us the denomination of your former church? And how has this "being under church discipline" affected you regarding becoming members of another church?

I emailed you.

Sorry to hijack this thread about forgiveness. Perhaps a new thread regarding church discipline is in order? Unless there already is one.......

Thanks to everyone who contributed on this topic. It has helped me a lot!

Feel free to start a new thread if you like.