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#42964 Sat Jul 18, 2009 10:09 AM
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MrDon Offline OP
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Recently I received a youtube video from a friend. This video was a female who was singng about being gay. The video showed several scenes from a church and the lyrics stated that we call ourselves christian, but all we do is hate. The person who sent me this video said that we needed to do was love everybody.

My response was that we need to love everybody, but acceptence and tolerence was not loving. Loving was sharing the word of God with them especially the Gospel, because that is how I as a sinner came to know Jesus and it was the only way that sinners would come to Jesus. I also stated that I heve never heard of anyboy becoming a Christian just becuase they were accpeted and tolerated by Christains.

The response that I got was. That acceptence and tolrence was what the gospel was all about because Jesus said to love everyone and Jeus was the word of God (quoting Revelation wher Jesus said "I am the word" paraphrase)


I replied using Romans 10:17 as a background, that faith only comes by hearing. I then got a nasty response. I was told that I was taking a dangerous stand by not tolerating and accping everybody, because the gospel is all about love.

The next phrase impacted me the most

"How can you even think that the words of Paul are as important as the words of Jesus himself?" I realized that many in our churches do not see the whole bible equally as the word of God, probably because many church teach a pop psycholgy using verses out of the bible as a reference.

does anybody else have any thoughts?

Don

(if I did not get this in the right forum, I am still learning how to use this site)

MrDon #42965 Sat Jul 18, 2009 11:04 AM
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You done good... this is in the right forum. bigglasses

Since Paul was converted by the work of Christ personally; revealed to him on the Damascus Road (Acts 9), approved of by the disciples/Apostles which walked with Christ and who were also taught by him (Gal 2:2, 6-9) and whose writings are considered inspired Scripture (2Pet 3:16), then they are no less authoritative than what Christ spoke. See also: 1Cor 14:37; 1Thess 4:1-8; 2Pet 3:2; 1Jh 4:6; Jude 1:17. This person's view of Scripture is not that of Scripture, i.e., he/she is denying the divine verbal inspiration of the Bible. It is the same Holy Spirit Who "moved" ALL the writers of the Bible and guided each and every word, every jot and tittle of which they wrote down and which was preserved until the Lord returns. (2Pet 2:19-21; 2Tim 3:16, 17)

The Gospel includes the wrath of God upon all unrighteousness (Jh 3:36; Rom 1:16-18), i.e., upon ALL who by nature are "children of wrath" (Eph 2:3; see also: The Wrath of God and Does God Love the Sinner and Hate Only His Sin?).

God has always condemned homosexuals and homosexuality, e.g., Gen 13:13; 18:20; Lev 18:22-28; Deut 23:17, 18; 29:21-28; Rom 1:18ff; 1Cor 6:9; 1Tim 1:9, 10; Jude 1:7, 10. Notice especially the Rom 1:18ff passage where homosexuality and idolatry are inextricably tied together.

Believers are to and will have a holy hatred against all sin. (cf. Ps 1; 97:10; 101:3; 119:104, 113, 163; 139:17-24). And lastly, consider the inspired words of the apostle Peter:

Quote
2 Peter 2:1-22 (ASV) "But there arose false prophets also among the people, as among you also there shall be false teachers, who shall privily bring in destructive heresies, denying even the Master that bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. And many shall follow their lascivious doings; by reason of whom the way of the truth shall be evil spoken of. And in covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose sentence now from of old lingereth not, and their destruction slumbereth not. For if God spared not angels when they sinned, but cast them down to hell, and committed them to pits of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; and spared not the ancient world, but preserved Noah with seven others, a preacher of righteousness, when he brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly; and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, having made them an example unto those that should live ungodly; and delivered righteous Lot, sore distressed by the lascivious life of the wicked (for that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed [his] righteous soul from day to day with [their] lawless deeds): the Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment unto the day of judgment; but chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of defilement, and despise dominion. Daring, self-willed, they tremble not to rail at dignities: whereas angels, though greater in might and power, bring not a railing judgment against them before the Lord. But these, as creatures without reason, born mere animals to be taken and destroyed, railing in matters whereof they are ignorant, shall in their destroying surely be destroyed, suffering wrong as the hire of wrong-doing; [men] that count it pleasure to revel in the day-time, spots and blemishes, revelling in their deceivings while they feast with you; having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; enticing unstedfast souls; having a heart exercised in covetousness; children of cursing; forsaking the right way, they went astray, having followed the way of Balaam the [son] of Beor, who loved the hire of wrong-doing; but he was rebuked for his own transgression: a dumb ass spake with man's voice and stayed the madness of the prophet. These are springs without water, and mists driven by a storm; for whom the blackness of darkness hath been reserved. For, uttering great swelling [words] of vanity, they entice in the lusts of the flesh, by lasciviousness, those who are just escaping from them that live in error; promising them liberty, while they themselves are bondservants of corruption; for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he also brought into bondage. For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein and overcome, the last state is become worse with them than the first. For it were better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after knowing it, to turn back from the holy commandment delivered unto them. It has happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog turning to his own vomit again, and the sow that had washed to wallowing in the mire."
In His grace,


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Pilgrim #42967 Sat Jul 18, 2009 3:29 PM
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Tom Offline
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Pilgrim

I agree with your approach, but correct me if I am wrong, isn't there something in Scripture that Jesus said himself that would back up other Scripture?
In this way, I think it might turn the tables on those who think that Paul's writings shouldn’t be considered inspired.

Tom

Tom #42968 Sat Jul 18, 2009 4:03 PM
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Tom,

I think I know what you are asking. What comes to mind are:

Quote
John 17:7-8 (ASV) "Now they know that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are from thee: for the words which thou gavest me I have given unto them; and they received [them], and knew of a truth that I came forth from thee, and they believed that thou didst send me."
It was Christ Who through His Spirit endowed men for the purpose of building the Church through their preaching and teaching. In other words, Christ Himself commissioned the Apostles and the Spirit gave them His words to speak.

Quote
Ephesians 4:8-12 (ASV) "Wherefore he saith, When he ascended on high, he led captivity captive, And gave gifts unto men. (Now this, He ascended, what is it but that he also descended into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended far above all the heavens, that he might fill all things.) And he gave some [to be] apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; for the perfecting of the saints, unto the work of ministering, unto the building up of the body of Christ:"
Paul also made this claim for himself and the other apostles:

Quote
1 Thessalonians 2:13 (ASV) "And for this cause we also thank God without ceasing, that, when ye received from us the word of the message, [even the word] of God, ye accepted [it] not [as] the word of men, but, as it is in truth, the word of God, which also worketh in you that believe."

And

1 Corinthians 11:23 (ASV) "For I received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus in the night in which he was betrayed took bread;"

1 Corinthians 15:3-8 (ASV) "For I delivered unto you first of all that which also I received: that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; and that he was buried; and that he hath been raised on the third day according to the scriptures; and that he appeared to Cephas; then to the twelve; then he appeared to above five hundred brethren at once, of whom the greater part remain until now, but some are fallen asleep; then he appeared to James; then to all the apostles; and last of all, as to the [child] untimely born, he appeared to me also."
And Jude also wrote in regard to the verity and authority of the apostles and their teaching:

Quote
Jude 1:17-18 (ASV) "But ye, beloved, remember ye the words which have been spoken before by the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ; That they said to you, In the last time there shall be mockers, walking after their own ungodly lusts."
In His grace,


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Pilgrim #42969 Sat Jul 18, 2009 7:16 PM
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Jesus Himself quoted Scripture constantly, calling it God's own word during His temptation (Matt. 4:4).And on the road to Emmaus (how I wish I could have traveled with His disciples that day!), He taught all that the Scripture says concerning Himself.

Paul and the Apostles preached the gospel entirely from the Old Testament as well. So since Jesus Himself put so much importance on the Scriptures - at least the Old Testament - one can certainly use any O.T. reference to make the point about homosexual acts - and any other point as well.

-Robin

MrDon #42971 Sun Jul 19, 2009 1:40 PM
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When people say things like that, I like to ask them which words Jesus wrote with His own hand. If we can accept the testimony of Matthew, Mark, Luke, & John, why should we not accept the testimony of Paul?

At any rate, there's always the opportunity to quote more words from Jesus. Something like Matt. 10:32-36: "Every one therefore who shall confess me before men, him will I also confess before my Father who is in heaven. But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father who is in heaven. Think not that I came to send peace on the earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law: and a man's foes shall be they of his own household."


Kyle

I tell you, this man went down to his house justified.

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