The Highway Forums General Discussion Theology Discussion Forum Sola Scriptura

just as “the Scriptures” refers to the oral Tradition of the Biblical Canon, so do these Scriptures refer to the Apostolic oral Tradition …

For instance, 2 Tim 1:13, 2:2,

Take as your norm the sound words that you heard from me, in the faith and love that are in Christ Jesus. Guard this rich trust with the help of the holy Spirit that dwells within us….And what you heard from me through many witnesses entrust to faithful people who will have the ability to teach others as well.

Cf. also 2 Tim 1:6, 3:10-11, 14, 16

Taken with 1 Tim 4:14, 5:22 … we have strong testimony of Apostolic Succession, as prefigured by the O.T (cf. Ex 24:1, Lk10:1), the unanimity of the Church fathers, and the City of God (cf. Psalm 48:1-2, 12-14) … This Succession has the authority to “bind and loose ” (cf. Mt 16:19, Mt 18:18), i.e. interpret Scripture… and do so infallibly (“whatever you bind on earth, shall be bound in heaven”etc) … which leads us to the fullness of Life in the Church … in this sense the Scriptures are sufficient …but “Scripture Alone” is an un-Biblical phrase for this process …


it is very difficult to prove a negative, especially when the Scriptures testify to an infallible oral Message (cf. 1 Peter 1:25) and when the closing of the Canon is itself part of this Tradition ….

… we can know what they told their hearers, because the Lord promised to keep this oral Word of the New Covenant (cf. Is 59:21, Jn 14:26) … which is why the Scriptures talk about this oral Tradition: “I have much to write you, but I do not want to do so with pen and ink.” (3 Jn 13) … cf. Acts 16:4, 2 Cor 3:2-3

now the Fathers (cf. 1 Cor 4:15), such as St. Athanasius, kept this Word … yet none of them held to views approximating any of the false reformers: Luther, Calvin, Zwingli … though their views were very close to true reformers, like St. Francis or St. Carlo Borromeo …


The Scriptures alone cannot attest to themselves, nor do they claim to … since even the Word of God did not testify to Himself (Jn 5:30-31) … For example, 2 Timothy of itself does not claim inerrancy, though God attests its inerrancy through the Spirit which indwells the Church (cf. Col 2:9-10)… to which we should listen … Cf. Mt 18:17 …


Amen!


… where is this idea in Scripture? …


… I think the historical Church cannot be compared to sects, because her attributes—including continuity--have no parallel … and indicate a Divine origin …


… the Word was present to the O.T. believers, in the Cloud (cf. Num 12:5), and in the Tabernacle (Cf Ex 25:8, 22) … so they were not going by the Scriptures alone, but required the teaching authority of the Old Covenant (cf. 2 Chron 35:3, Neh 8:8), which Christ upheld (Mt 23:1-3) … even though it was enacted on lesser promises than those (cf. Is 27:2-3, Mt 16:18-19) of the New Covenant … (cf. Is 27:2-3, Mt 16:18-19)


I mean no offence … I believe that the authority of the Catholic Bishops (cf. 1 Tim 4:11, Titus 1:7,9; 2:15)) is the authority Jesus Christ given through the original Apostles of Jesus Christ, by His grace alone (cf. 1 Tim 2:5) … Paul himself having passed on Apostolic authority to Timothy and Silvanus (1 Thes 1:1, 2:6-7) … while the Bible describes those “appointed” (Mk 3:14) to “offices” (cf. Acts 1:20) within a “Kingdom” of “Apostles”(cf. 1 Cor 12:28, Eph 4:11) … with offices being always filled in the Old Covenant (e.g. Is 22:19-22) … so that we should compare our Biblical interpretations with the Apostolic teachings (cf. Acts 2:42) …

The idea that Apostolic Authority ended with the death of the last Apostle is false and un-Biblical , except in the sense that everything had been passed on by then … which is a correct oral Tradition …


… I know that the Roman Church before and after Constantine believed the same … as evidenced by the testimony of even Eastern Fathers like Theodoret, Sts. Maximus, Sophronius (560-638 A.D) or Cyril and Methodius , the Apostles to Russia… who testify about the constant fidelity of the Roman Church … as St. Irenaeus does in the 100s … and likewise, the authorities before Constantine teach the distinctively Catholic or Papist doctrines … like the great fathers of the 3 and 400s … and did not adhere to the protestant idea of the Church nor the S.S. principle …
http://www.cin.org/users/jgallegos/contents.htm
http://www.catholic.com/library/fathers_know_best.asp

… but if you are not willing to debate this with someone sincere, perhaps someone else can or I can go elsewhere …