The Highway Forums General Discussion Theology Discussion Forum ELECTION, PREDESTINATION, GOD'S SOVEREIGNTY AND MA

ELECTION, PREDESTINATION, GOD'S SOVEREIGNTY AND MAN'S FREE WILL

ELECTION:

When man places his faith in the finished work of Christ--His death as
payment for our sin, His burial and Resurrection--or when man believes the
Gospel, he is placed in union with Jesus Christ. Thus sharing all that Christ
is and has.

This includes Christ's Election 1 Peter 2:6. (mine elect)--and Christ's
destiny Eph. 1:5 (by Jesus Christ we are placed as son's in God's family
having a destiny planned beforehand.)

Christ is chosen - Isa. 41.1, 1 Per. 2:6. We choose Christ--free will:
Rev. 22:17.

Because we are then IN Christ (Eph. 1:4) we are Chosen in Him. We share
everything he has--this includes His destiny.

KEY VERSE: 2 Thes. 2:13b "because God has from the beginning Chosen you to Salvation thru Sanctification of the Spirit (Eph. 1:13, 14) and belief of the Truth."

Man believes--then he is Chosen, Indwelt by the Holy Spirit, shares
Christ's life (1 John 5:11, 12), His Righteousness (2 Cor. 5:21), His Sonship
(Gal. 3:26 - Jn. 1:12) His Priesthood (1 Pet. 2:5-9), His Heirship (Rom. 8:16,
17), His Sanctification (1 Cor. 1:2), His Election (1 Pet. 1:2, Eph. 1:4), His
Destiny (Eph. 1:5, 11).

Jesus Christ is the Elected One--Man shares this election by choice. From
eternity Past man is Chosen IN Christ. Chosen in Christ is God's plan for
mankind. Anyone can enter God's plan of Salvation by Faith--hence, ALL
members of the human race are potentially elected. The "whosoever wills" are the elect. The "whosoever won'ts" are the non-elect.

We choose Christ by Faith--which is simply believing. Faith is not given to
some, and withheld to others. The ability to believe is common to all mankind (the synonyms for Faith are looking, eating, drinking, Num 21:8; John 6:54).

Faith in itself is just a system of perception that we all possess. It is the
object of Faith that saves--it is not "believe on Buddha, or Mohammed", but,
"believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved." (Acts 16:31)

Eph. 2:8,9 "For by Grace are ye saved thru Faith; and that not of yourselves;
it is the Gift of Fod: not of works, lest any man should boast." Dr. Kenneth
Wuest in Nuggets from the Greek translates it thus--dispelling forever the
idea that it is faith that is the gift--Salvation is the gift! ! "For by the
grace have you been saved in times past completely through Faith (feminine
gender) with the result that your salvation persists through present time; and
this (touto Gr. Neuter gender) {i.e. Salvation} is not from you as a source,
of God it is the gift; not from a source of works, in order that no one might
boast. Salvation by faith is the gift.

PREDESTINATION:

The omniscient God knew and designed a perfect plan before the world began.

Jesus Christ is the focal point of the plan.

Election is a place in the plan. A person enters the plan when he believes in
the Lord Jesus Christ; then shares all that Christ is and has, including His
destiny. So predestination applies to believers only. We are predestined to
be conformed to the image of God's Son. Rom. 8:29. The unbeliever is not
predestined to Hell. He chooses his destiny. Christ died for everyone. If
anyone goes to hell, he goes there because in his free will, he has operated
independently of God's will for him. (2 Per. 3:9), and of God's provision for
him-(the cross).

FOREKNOWLEDGE:

Foreknowledge is God's omniscience in operation.

God has always known everything. (Col. 2:3; 2 Tim. 2:19). God does not
coerce or influence man's free will. God foreknew what every free will would
decide at any given point in time. Since God knew what every free will would
decide, He makes Rom. 8:28 work in the life of every believer.

SOVEREIGNTY:

God is sovereign. He has a will. He is Eternal, infinite, self-determining
(Dan. 4:35; Deut. 4:39; 1 Chron. 29:12; Job 9:12; Psa. 47:2; 83:18; 93:1;
135:6; Acts 17:34; 2 Chron. 20:8) He makes decisions, policies, sets up
principles. This is Divine Volition.

God is also Omniscient--He has all knowledge. There was never a time when He did not know everything that would ever happen. (Job 26:6; 31:4; 34:21; Psa. 147:5; Heb. 413; 1 John 3:20; Prov. 15:5)

The triune God--in Eternity Past planned a plan. GRACE. This is called the
Doctrine of Eternal Decrees. The Lord Jesus Christ--the 2nd member of the
Trinity--was Elected in Eternity Past to be the executor of the Plan--(to
Create-to sustain-to Save and to have a Kingdom. God the Father called Jesus Christ "my servant'--"mine elect" (Isa. 42:1; 1 Peter 2:65)

Jesus Christ is the only one elected from Eternity Past.

Because of the Doctrine of Unlimited Atonement (Christ died for the
ungodly--for God so loved the world etc.) all members of the human race are
potentially elected. (1 John 2:2; 2 Pet. 2:1; Psa. 89:14; Rom. 3:26)

God cannot be unfair, nor unrighteous, nor unjust--(Psa. 145:17; 18:30; Deut.
32:4; 2 Chron. 19:7; Psa. 89:14; Rom. 3:26)

God is not willing for anyone to perish--2 Pet. 3:9. Rom. 10:13 says whoever
shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. So He gives the whole
world a Choice--not just certain individuals. But doesn't John 6:44 say, "no
man can come except the Father draw him"? Yes, but John 6:64, 65 explains
what Jesus meant when He said that--and in John 12:32 Jesus says "And I if I
be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

***************************************************************

ELECTION IN BALANCE

The following verses of scripture demonstrate that God's Love, Light, Mercy, Will (desire), Provision, Command, and Invitation go out to all men to be saved. From the perspective of the unsaved, the good news of the gospel is a bonafide offer to ALL.

1. GOD LOVES ALL (Jn 3:16) "For God so loved the world.."

2. GOD'S MERCY IS TO ALL (Rom. 11:32) "For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all."

3. GOD GIVES LIGHT TO EVERY MAN (Jn 1:9) "That (Jesus Christ) was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world."

4. GOD'S WILL (DESIRE) IS FOR ALL MEN TO BE SAVED (1 Tim 2:4) "Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the
truth."

5. GOD IS NOT WILLING (DESIROUS) THAT ANY SHOULD PERISH (2 Pet.3:9) "The Lord....is long-suffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."

6. GOD PROVIDED A RANSOM FOR ALL (1 Tim. 2:6) "Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time."

7. GOD THROUGH CHRIST HIS LAMB TOOK AWAY THE WORLD'S SIN (Jn 1:29) "Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the
world."

8. GOD SENT CHRIST TO BE THE PROPITIATION (SATISFACTION) FOR THE SINS OF THE WHOLD WORLD (1 John 2:2) "And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the whole world."

9. GOD SENT HIS SON TO TASTE DEATH FOR EVERY MAN (Heb. 2:9) "that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man."

10. GOD COMMANDS ALL MEN TO REPENT (Acts 17:30) "but now (God) commandeth all men every where to repent."

11. GOD INVITES WHOSOEVER WILL TO COME (Rev. 22:17) "And the Spirit and the bride say, Come....And whosoever will, let him take the
water of life freely."

12. GOD THROUGH CHRIST COMMANDS THAT THE GOSPEL BE
PREACHED TO EVERY CREATURE (MAN) (Mk.16:15) "Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature."

13. GOD SENT JOHN THAT THROUGH CHRIST ALL MEN MIGHT BELIEVE (Jn. 1:7) "The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the
LIght, that all men through him might believe."

14. GOD GAVE CHRIST THE BREAD FROM HEAVEN FOR THE LIFE OF THE WORLD (Jn. 6:51) "and the bread that I will give is my flesh,
which I will give for the life of the world."

15. GOD SENT HIS SON TO SEEK AND TO SAVE THE LOST. SINCE ALL ARE LOST, CHRIST HAS COME TO SEEK AND SAVE ALL (Lk. 19:10) "For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost."

16. GOD IS CALLED THE SAVIOR OF ALL MEN (1 Tim. 4:10) "God who is the Savior of all men, specially of those that believe."

17. GOD'S GRACE HATH APPEARED TO ALL MEN (Titus 2:11) "For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men..."

18. GOD LAID THE INIQUITY OF US ALL ON CHRIST (Isa. 53:6) "and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all."

19. GOD SENT CHRIST TO DIE FOR THE UNGODLY OF WHICH ALL MEN ARE (Rom. 5:6) "Christ died for the ungodly."

20. GOD'S FREE GIFT OF RIGHTEOUSNESS IS EXTENDED TO ALL MEN (Rom. 5:18) "even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto the justification of life."

Don... it seems you have had a prepared statement ready to launch on us Calvinists which you have used for quite some time. For example, two years ago you were using this stuff HERE. After reading every page and every single entry in that Plymouth Brethren thread re: Calvinism, Arianism and the Plymouth Brethren, it is obvious to conclude that you have no desire to learn from us but only to get into an endless and fruitless debate. Thus, I would be foolish to spend any time presenting the case for biblical Calvinism to you. I suspect it is the proverbial case of, "Don't confuse me with the facts! I've already got my mind all made up."

However, I am going to dismantle your basic argument(s) with just a few comments which perhaps you haven't been presented with before now.

1. There is no biblical passage anywhere which states that God's election is but a "plan". Election always has an object, e.g., a nation, individual, etc. with a specific end in view, e.g., to be a witness to the nations, to be saved, etc.

2. Eph 1:4-13 is addressed specifically to "the saints", i.e., those who have believed upon the Lord Christ. And in that passage Paul is explaining HOW it is they came to be saints; by God's eternal election unto salvation from beginning to end.

3. God's election of individuals is TO believing and never BECAUSE of believing. There is no biblical passage that even implies such nonsense. See, for example, Acts 13:48; Ps 110:3; Rom 8:29,30; 9:11-13; 1Pet 1:2; Jh 1:12,13.

For a large collection of articles presenting and defending the Calvinist view of predestination, go HERE.

"Coming/Come" in various places is also a synonym for believing/faith, e.g., Jh 6:44 where no man/one comes to Christ unless it is given to him by the Father to do so. This is a discriminatory act of God to reveal Christ to some and to withhold it from others, e.g., Matt 11:25-27; Rom 9:14-24; 11:7,8; 1Thess 5:9; 2Thess 2:11,12; Acts 16:14; Jh 10:26, etc. and 1Pet 2:8; Rom 9:22; 2Pet 2:3; Jude 1:4.

Sorry, but Mr. Wuest erred in his understanding of the Greek. There are many good men who are equally or even more knowledgeable of the Greek which would strongly dispute his understanding of the grammar in that text. Philippians 1:29 clearly states that "belief" is given by God, cf. also Jh 1:12,13; Matt 16:17; Jh 6:44,45; Acts 17:27; Col 2:12; Jam 1:17,18.

I'm afraid you have this backward. God designed and therefore He knew all things. Foreknowledge flows from God's eternal decree/council. There is no logical way God could know anything before it happened unless it was by His own eternal foreordination. If anyone posits that "saw" what was going to happen and consequently He "knew", then this de facto mitigates against the doctrine of Omniscience. For, if God has to "observe" what someone did then this of necessity means that God did not know of that act beforehand. Thus that knowledge was absent from Him.

Secondly, what person or thing could God possibly "observe" if He didn't create it previously? If it was in His "mind", then it is true that He conceived of it/them first, thus proving my point. If a person or thing existed outside of God then of necessity this mitigates against and denies God's Omnipresence.

Thirdly, if there are things and/or persons which exist independently of His eternal council and foreordination, then it cannot be said that God is Omnipotent but contrariwise, God is thus made to ordain only that which already exists/happens.

Fourthly, in regard to man if, for the sake of argument, God "sees" one believing and another not and thus predestines/elects the one and not the other, then there is no room for "free-will". For, the unbelieving one cannot believe even if he wanted to since his destiny has already been firmly fixed from eternity. Of course, this presumes that individuals pre-existed their actual creation which again is sheer nonsense. But nevertheless, whatever God ordains shall come to pass in either case which again negates any idea of "free-will".

Not according to Eph 1:4; Rom 9:11-13. Election is from eternity and not done in time.

Sorry, wrong again... See texts above re: appointed/predestined to destruction.

Again, see above, e.g., Rom 9:11-13, et al.

Now you are entering into the area of Christ's atonement, which is another subject entirely. However, just a few comments on this:

1. If Christ died for everyone then everyone MUST of necessity be saved. For Christ's death paid the penalty for ALL sins. Thus, on what legal basis can God rightly condemn anyone? For the most succinct refutation of this notion see here: For Whom Did Christ Die?

I have already commented on the origin of God's "foreknowledge", aka: Omniscience above. You are assuming "free-will" and haven't offered any biblical support for it. Arthur Pink has written one of the best statements and biblically sound articles on foreknowledge HERE.

Lastly, I can understand fully why you reject historic Arminianism. It is clearly far too conservative in comparison to your view(s).

This is precisely the crux of the grand inconsistency with evangelicalism - they seem to confess a "substitutionary view of the atonement", yea, even the core idea of an atonement as "a covering over" [someone's sins], and yet, irrationally insist on "Christ's death for all", but if Christ did bear vicariously the sins of all and everyone, then all and everyone MUST be justified for He did bear their iniquities! That's the point of His vicarious suffering! Am sure Plymouth Brethren, as all other fundamentalists affirm the substitutionary atonement and yet insist on a universal, albeit conditional redemption, which for its efficacy depends upon our free will..Huh! Just think how many evangelicals like to be defined (if they want to be defined at all) as "four point Calvinists"!

The longer I live and think on these things the more I am inclined to view the 3d point, as the most crucial of ALL points, and one to be most insisted upon, for if salvation is NOT by Christ's blood alone, then what is left of our Christian profession? I do believe that the heresy of an "unlimited" pseudo-redemption is THE ultimate heresy of all false religionism.

BTW, Federal Vision must also deny Christ's efficacious atonement if (as they allege) so many of His procured blessings and salvific benefits get ultimately wasted on disobedient covenant members!

In one sense I can agree that it is the ACTUAL and EFFICACIOUS death of our Lord Christ that all true religion is grounded. However, what is also true is that the myriad denials, modifications, and false applications of this fundamental truth all begin with the distortion, diminishing or denial of the biblical doctrine of Total Depravity. It is fallen man's ultimate quest to assert his false sense and alleged right of autonomy. Sinful man has an insatiable desire to usurp God's unassailable and indisputable sovereignty. The Devil and his minions gave their best effort and instantly lost that attack. And even now, out of sheer stupidity they continue their efforts to gather in fallen mortals to join them in their inevitable everlasting destruction. Jonathan Edwards once viewed the Devil as the greatest blockhead that ever lived.

"In the beginning, God created man after His own image. And ever since that time, man has been trying to return the favor."

Without controversy, salvation of necessity is ALL of sheer, unwarranted and sovereign grace... else there is no salvation at all.