The Highway Forums General Discussion Open Forum Raising A Genderless Child?

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/05/24/genderless-child-creates-media-firestorm-toronto/

The skinny of this is that a Canadian couple has a 4 month old child and they will not disclose the child's gender to friends and family. They are embarking on a weird pop psychology experiment of letting the child decide for itself what gender it wants to be and not "forcing" it into a gender role. No doubt the child will grow up very confused.

I've never understood the feminist/liberal rage against gender roles. It seems to me they intend to pervert the ordinations of God at every point. I'll give it 10 years before "gender free agency" is taught in our public schools.

And this poor child is the victim of his/her parents' experiment. I consider this nothing short of child abuse.

I would tend to agree with you Reltzrah. This couple is denying something very basic to their child—its identity. Sort of like "Cousin IT" who was not really a person, but rather a fictitious character. So this couple has an IT for a child. Poor kid.

Agreed!

An ancillary question might be: Are this poor child's parents going to force the child to undergo a 'sex-change operation' if necessary which would coincide with the child's decision as to what gender IT decides to adopt?

Obviously, the child was born either male or female. And whatever gender he/she was born with is what God has determined it should be.

Isaiah 5:21 (ASV) "Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!"

Pilgrim,

You're definitely right to put sex-change operation in quotes. It's not possible for one to change their gender and any operation is simply a mutilation. We are male and female right down to the chromozones at the cellular level. We are spiritually male and female as well, even those who feel they are a woman trapped in a man's body...that's a mental illness and should be treated as such. The success of ministries helping homosexuals such as Exodus International is that they help people to reacquire their sexual identity.

The one thing I dread happening is to have somebody in the workplace get a sex-change op or says they have had one and they are no longer male. That person would change their name to a female one and expect everyone to refer to him in female pronouns. It's a deception I couldn't go along with and I would be put in the uncomfortable position of not talking to that person or about him. His extra-constitutional right to have his decision respected would trump my constitutional right to practice my faith and beliefs by not accomodating a lie. Of course, this is hypothetical only and the good Lord has spared me this gauntlet so far.

This issue has gotten some traction due to the recent "sex-change" operation that Chaz Bono received. There was an interview with Chaz in a recent TIME magazine and he makes it sound like cosmetic surgery. This will certainly cause legal headaches because it's much more than simply changing one's name legally, as when Chad Johnson became Chad Ochocinco. Perhaps that's a poor example becuase I understand that he is now reverting to Johnson. Although it begs the question: can a "sex-change" operation be reversed if the indivudual wants to return to the gender that he or she originally had? It just shows how deplorably wrong it is.

Relztrah,

You are certainly correct that is does cause 'headaches' of mammoth legal proportions. For example, if a male undergoes a sex-change operation and he is then considered a female, does this individual then have the right to use a women's bathroom facility? How about in the area of sports and the use of lockerrooms. Then, there is the matter of marriage, custody of children, etc., etc., ad nauseam. To me, this entire sex-change fiasco is nothing less than an abomination.

I would like to add something to this “unusual” discussion. When I was in high school I had a cousin that had some friends who were in the “process of changing” from female to male. When I met them, they were male from the waist up; the rest of the “change” was pending. In the mean time they were taking hormone therapy to make them male; deepen the voice, grow whiskers, bulk up. Both of those individuals had “partners,” though I’m not sure if they were married. There was some question if they could marry before the process was complete. However, there is no doubt that they were involved long before the process was started; they were two women.

Okay, with that said, I can’t help but think of [woman]’s daughter. The woman had been married once and had a daughter by her husband. The girl once posed the question when we were a group of kids together, “Do you think [woman/man] was a woman once?” The girl had picked up on a lot and vaguely remembered [woman/man] when she was still all woman and involved with her mother. It really disturbed the girl and I suspect to this day that she is emotionally and spiritually traumatized, as they had the nerve to join a church presenting themselves as “Mr. and Mrs.” Those who venture into this do not stop to consider all the ramifications.

The law given to Moses which condemns the practice of cross dressing I think addresses this succinctly. I wouldn't be half put off by homosexuals in society if they didn't act like extroverted freaks. And the fact that the Bible addresses both homosexuality and cross dressing almost in the same breath is significant to us today.

But in regard to these parents, there's another concern. I see them in the same light as those parents who say, "We decided not to cram a bunch of religious dogma down our children's throats. We'll let them decide for themselves." What patent nonsense! Children need and crave guidance so they can know right from wrong and how to assimilate into society. Parents have 18 short years to guide their children in the way they believe best. After that, they let go and children then make their own decisions as adults. For parents to make a virtue out of divesting themselves of their responsibility to guide their children is sickening. It's nothing more than the mawkish moralizing that masks spiritual lassitude.

Well said!!! I’d like to add even more to this. Today I had an experience with a cross-dresser. I was in the dispatcher’s office getting a work order when the individual came in and spoke with the dispatcher. I could not tell if the person was a man with a high voice or a very masculine woman even though there were no “physical characteristics;” if you know what I mean. When the individual left, I asked the dispatcher. Much to my surprise, it was a woman. The dispatcher explained that “she binds herself up tight.” I couldn’t believe that someone would go to that much pain and discomfort.

Nevertheless, in light of that and what you shared, I am reminded of Proverbs 22:6. This verse is a two-edged sword because NOT training up a child is the same as training up a child in the wrong way. I can fully attest to that. At 51 years of age I am still learning those things that one is supposed to learn early in life. My dad was never involved in my upbringing and my folks divorced when I was 10; I essentially raised myself. Yes, it was rocky and I crossed the line a few times over the years, but by God’s grace I am sitting here submitting this instead of sitting in a prison cell, lying drink in a gutter, or buried because of a drug overdose or involvement in a violent crime.

Letting a child choose its gender, decide what’s right or wrong, or declare its independence before it’s mature is not only sin but an abomination to God since He places those precious lives in the care of the parents.

Actually, Proverbs 22:6 in the Hebrew literally reads: "Train up a child in the manner of his own way and when he gets old he shall not depart from it." It is actually a warning against letting a child have his/her independence without parental oversight and instruction. For if you allow a child to grow autonomously, disaster will result, i.e., he/she will follow whatever comes to mind. The reason for not allowing a child to be a 'free-thinker' and its remedy follows closely with: Proverbs 22:15 (ASV) "Foolishness is bound up in the heart of a child; [But] the rod of correction shall drive it far from him."

Thanks for the insight!!! I guess that would explain the difficulties I had growing up.