The Highway Forums General Discussion Open Forum Agree or Disagree?

Do you agree or disagree with the following quote and why?

"Scripture informs prayer and prayer informs Scripture."

Tom

Scripture informs prayer: Absolutely true. When our prayers are guided by Scripture, we pray according to His infallible revelation.

Prayer informs scripture: If the intended meaning is to say that scripture cannot be understood without the illumination of the Holy Spirit, sought by prayerful reading and study, then I agree. If it is intended to imply that prayer "informs" scripture in any other sense, I would have to sharply disagree.

-Robin

I agree with Robin's response. NOTHING "informs" Scripture in the sense that Scripture is incomplete and someone's prayer adds to it or even illuminates it.

It's a strange statement at best. What's the source and the context within which it was made?

What do you mean by ? Certainly God has ordained the manner in which man may worship Him which included how he should approach Him in prayer. This part of your statement is unclear. I would like to understand what you mean by this.

Perhaps you might consider what is taught in the Westminster Larger Catechism Question 178 and following, http://the-highway.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/posts/48217.html you might find some answers to your question.

But like Robin has alluded to, it is man who needs to be receptive to Scripture and not vice versa.

I believe Robin is correct on what he said about the Holy Spirit's illumination via prayer.
The reason why I brought it up is because I think the language used can be misunderstood.
However, I like the quote itself if the understood in the proper context.
How might it be worded better, as not to be misunderstood?
I have come to like short quotes packed with great meaning.
An example is a quote by John Owen.
"If we don"t abide in prayer, we will abide in temptation."

Tom

Again I have to ask...

1. Who wrote it?

2. What is the CONTEXT in which you found the quote?

Without especially #2, it is virtually impossible to give the author a . On its face, it is spurious.

I wrote it. But like I said, before I use it I want to make sure it communicates what I mean by it.
Tom

There is no way anyone can suggest a better way of phrasing it until you let us know what it was exactly you were trying to say.

So, to repeat myself and everyone else, The first part seems clear enough, i.e., Scripture is the source of all information regarding the object of prayer, the content of prayer, the attitude in prayer, the frequency of prayer, etc. However, taken at it is written, "prayer informs Scripture" is heretical. I am going to assume you really didn't mean what that phrase implies; a person's prayer gives previous unknown knowledge/information to the Bible, an impossible feat to be sure.

Soooooo, what ARE you trying to say about the relationship between a person's prayers and Scripture?

We know you're not a Gnostic, Tom. We know you're not trying to suggest that prayer offers secret knowledge or special access to new revelation. Just replace the word "informs" with "illuminates" or something.

Robin

Thank you, I think illuminates is the kind of word I was looking for.

Tom

Pilgrim
I am sorry I thought I already answered your question earlier, but just to be clear let me quote Robin as to my intended meaning.

However, I think Robin answered my question in his last post when he said the word “illuminates” is a better word for my intended meaning.

Tom

Although, I may be picking at things but you did ask the question, is it not the Holy Spirit that illuminates the Scriptures to us? So prayer for illumination works but it isn't prayer itself that illuminates Scripture.

Being the proverbial "nitpicker", I have to heartily agree with your respone. It isn't prayer, in and of itself, that illuminates Scripture, but it is instrumental through prayer that the Holy Spirit illuminate our minds and open our hearts to the proper understanding of Scripture.

I agree, it is the Holy Spirit through the instrument of prayer and careful study that illuminates the Scriptures. The point of making a quote like that, is not that it does not need further clarification. It is just that when I read a short quote full of profound meaning; it prompts me to think about the issue further.
That might be just me, but I sometimes like small memorable quotes that are easily remembered than longer ones.

Tom

The problem is not with short pity quotes, it is in effectively stating truth with few words. I like short quotes also and know lots of people who do as well. The qualifier in my opinion is that it must always be true and profound. Otherwise, it is not worth remembering.