The Highway Forums General Discussion Open Forum A.W. Pink

Pilgrim
I think I will make this my last post on this topic.
I will start by saying that at this point in my life, if I believed I had to leave the Church I am presently in and was faced with not going to a local body, because there wasn’t a Reformed Church I probably would stay home. This has to do with the fact my children are grown and I don’t need to consider them in the equation as much as before. I realize my wife would probably start attending the same Church as one of my daughters; but I could not do so.
I have not got time to look up passages of Scripture to show you where am coming from, to which I used years ago to help me make the decision to stay in the particular Church I stayed in.
However, I will tell you a few things that I had to consider through that period in my life.
At that time, my switch (if I can put it that way) to Reformed theology was relatively new and back then I had many a sleepless night even going through that process. For a time although I had actually made the switch, because I believed it was Biblical, to be quite frank I did not like it. However, during that process I came to realize (partly through Roman 9) that I was looking at the whole matter through my old way of looking at things. It was like a light switched on and I realized it is not about me, it is about Him.
I wanted to find a body of believers that was in keeping with what I now believed, but I soon found out that there were no Churches around that shared my beliefs, though there were many Christians in my own Church that shared my beliefs. Many of whom I shared and continue to share great fellowship with. As you probably know, I didn’t have it easy in my home life, because of what I believed and I wondered if I shouldn’t be leaving that Church and staying home.
Some of the questions I wrestled with because of that were.
Are the people where I was attending genuine Christians? To which, after a long period of time, I ended up believing yes many were.
If, I did leave based on everything I know, would I be willing to live with the consequences of going against my wife and children and even the Reformed Christians I actually knew?
The answer I ended up with is no, not unless things got much worse. Both my wife and I left that Church years later, when we moved to another city.
Other than some Reformed Christians such as you on the web, the vast majority counseled me to stay put until God opened an opportunity to go to a body that is truly Reformed.
Did I make the correct decision? I am not sure, but that decision was not an easy one.
Tom

Tom, "Believe me, I wrestled in prayer, consulted with other Reformed Christians and in the end, what I said above is what I ended up doing. I knew that not everybody would agree with my decision, but I definitely didn't make that decision lightly.
Hope that answers your question".

I would take heed to what Pilgrim wrote!! Especially on Friday, April 1, 2016 3:15 AM.

The husband is the head of the wife in the family, and he has the responsibility of guiding his family to a closer relationship with the Lord. How do you do that going to a false gospel church that is really no church at all. We are to defend the gospel of God. As you know most churches today are semi-pelagian churches, It has a God that is not the God of His word.(2 Timothy 3:16,17). Gal. 1:6-9 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: 7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received,let him be accursed. We go to God in His word for His will in all matters.

My friend I will tell you what happened to me and my wife. We were fairly young Christians and went to a "reformed" OPC Presbyterian church, with about 25 people their. We had great preaching and teaching for about 2 years, then the session gave us a full time statism pastor I believe they call it,he has to preach for a year. Well I could tell something was wrong. I had a feeling he was preaching federal vision which takes you back to Rome!! Because he brought up the name N.T. Wright to me, and said he was going to teach from a book he wrote in bible study for the first bible study, red flags went up and I kept hearing buzz words as these that have crept in (Jude 4) are sly about things at the start. Then he told me when it was just me and him talking that I should take churches seriously, well I said I did. And he preceded to tell me all churches even the catholic cult. It was then I knew we had a big problem!! I asked him to repent and he wouldn't. This was in the mountains in AZ and the elders at this point were never their much. So I went to the 1st. elder and asked if he would go to him with me on a Mathew 18 case with me. He said he wouldn't and that he couldn't believe he was saying these things, that they had vetted him!!! So I went to the 2nd. then the head of the session and he wouldn't either. So I wrote the head of the session a letter, asking him to please take my wife and I out of the OPC, and if he didn't I would take it to the Presbytery and all the way to the general assembly. Well he took us off. Then about a year later a friend from that church called me and told me this pastor had quit the OPC and was going to start a false church elsewhere. I say this as these poor people did not have the discernment to know to get out of their. So now they had almost a year of false preaching. A few may have quit later I don't know.

In His grace, greg

Soli Deo Gloria

Tom, I do understand that this is a hard decision. I've had to make those decisions at various times in my life. The risk of losing friends and family members is present in those decisions. I recognized that and while I also want to be liked and to have my family stay with me, I knew that this test of my obedience required my total allegiance to God and to trust in Him for the consequences. There is a cost to following the Lord Jesus Christ and he tells us that we should first count the cost. It is a real cost and it really hurts when people ridicule us and say all manner of nasty things against us. But should we curb our words or water down the truth so that they will accept us? Or should we obey God? I prefer to think the second option would out weigh any desire for friendship with the world.

Husband's who are believers with unbelieving wives or children bear a special responsibility to affirm the truth in all of their actions. Naturally, they cannot force their wives to believe, or go to a faithful church. But they can teach them by example by not attending a church that teaches falsehood. As heads of their family, setting a right example, lovingly and not like a dictator, may be blessed by God to the conversion of their family's souls. 1Cor 7. Who knows? Or they could lose their families. But the believer is called to obey no matter what the cost.

I was going through the devotions and quotation forum and saw this which I thought might encourage you.

“I came not to send peace on earth, but a sword.”—Mat 10:34

"The Christian will be sure to make enemies. It will be one of his objects to make none; but if to do the right, and to believe the true, should cause him to lose every earthly friend, he will count it but a small loss, since his great Friend in heaven will be yet more friendly, and reveal himself to him more graciously than ever. O ye who have taken up his cross, know ye not what your Master said? “I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother; and a man’s foes shall be they of his own household.” Christ is the great Peacemaker; but before peace, he brings war. Where the light cometh, the darkness must retire. Where truth is, the lie must flee; or, if it abideth, there must be a stern conflict, for the truth cannot and will not lower its standard, and the lie must be trodden under foot. If you follow Christ, you shall have all the dogs of the world yelping at your heels. If you would live so as to stand the test of the last tribunal, depend upon it the world will not speak well of you. He who has the friendship of the world is an enemy to God; but if you are true and faithful to the Most High, men will resent your unflinching fidelity, since it is a testimony against their iniquities. Fearless of all consequences, you must do the right. You will need the courage of a lion unhesitatingly to pursue a course which shall turn your best friend into your fiercest foe; but for the love of Jesus you must thus be courageous. For the truth’s sake to hazard reputation and affection, is such a deed that to do it constantly you will need a degree of moral principle which only the Spirit of God can work in you; yet turn not your back like a coward, but play the man. Follow right manfully in your Master’s steps, for he has traversed this rough way before you. Better a brief warfare and eternal rest, than false peace and everlasting torment."
~ C. H. Spurgeon

I wanted to focus a bit on what you wrote above looking at what God has written on this subject, albeit briefly.

When one is not provided a solid biblical church;

the spiritual life of the true believer wanes, albeit it is possible due to the present availability of resources to augment what is lacking and thus grow in grace at a slower rate. But what is more detrimental is to deliberately choose to put oneself under the administration of a false church. Scripture clearly shows that a professing believer's spiritual life not only exponentially suffers degradation but the possibility of one's faith dying is a real possibility.

Scripture is clear on what is the proper action one should take when faced with such circumstances, which, by the way are ordained by God. Psalm 1 provides both the positive and the negative in this regard:

No professing believer is to voluntarily sit under the preaching/teaching of one who does not deliver the truth; the faith once delivered unto the saints.

Paul is even more direct in the above passage and chastises those who turn their back on the truth and then anathematizes those who preach/teach a false gospel. As you well know, and as C.H. Spurgeon rightly taught, Calvinism is the gospel and thus all who spurn this teaching are guilty of promoting a false gospel from which no true faith can come.

Peter is quite explicit in his condemnation of false teachers and even reminds his readers of that which awaits them and all who follow their heresies, comparing them to the judgment God brought upon Sodom and Gomorrah. And on the positive side, Peter makes mention of Lot where he wrote:

Lot had no affinity to the abominations that were being taught and practiced in those cities. In fact it is written that he was "sore distressed" and his very soul was "vexed from day to day". Righteous Lot was thus delivered from that place. He did not choose to remain there because of the problems that he might have faced which his wife might have brought upon him. No, there was no assimilation nor pragmatic reasoning with Lot. And should he have remained there (theoretically) he would have surely perished with the wicked, (cf. Ps 1).

And lastly, although MUCH more could be brought forth from God's Word, Paul's words to the Corinthian church I think sums it up succinctly in that he uses his own life and those who labored in like manner for the gospel and then in wisdom speaks of what is required of those who professed Christ there.

We got away from the topic of A. W. Pink, but that's ok.

Tom, I totally understand where you are coming from as I've been there myself. But I'll go you one better. I was in a reformed church and left to go to a "false church." All I can say for myself is that I have made some stupid mistakes in my life and that was one of them. I'm now going back to the reformed church.

I did want to make this comment about Pink. It was his book, The Sovereignty of God, that led me to the Bible to read the great truths of the doctrines of grace for myself