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Milan #53988 Thu Jun 15, 2017 2:05 PM
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Pilgrim please read article! Once you do it everything will be cleared.
I posted this article because I was excepting good response but up yo now i haven t found one!


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Milan #53989 Thu Jun 15, 2017 5:02 PM
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I did read the article and that is why I decided to respond to you and ask YOU to clarify what exactly your point is. Historically, based upon Scripture, the Reformers, the Puritans and even now even using the term "Reformed" broadly, it has been affirmed that in Scripture the law of God is to be understood as being Civil, Ceremonial and Moral. Further, the use of the law is likewise to be understood as being Pedagogical, Civil and Moral/Normative.

For the sake of brevity, I referred you to The Highway website and the section where there are a number of salient articles which set forth this understanding of the law of God as it was given in Scripture and its three uses.

So again, if you could be so kind as to give me/us a brief summary of what you are trying to convey and how, if it does in fact differ from the Church's official doctrine, how it differs. Once that is established, I could better dialogue with you on this matter. grin


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Milan #53990 Fri Jun 16, 2017 1:48 AM
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I don't care what any confession says because if I want that I would be RC or EO. I find this article and few others about Law in the Bible and up to now I haven t found any proper response. It seems to me that division of the Law comes from tradition and not by the clear study of the scripture. BTW there are a lot of church fathers that don't support that division.
I could respond and very easily show to you that 10 commandments were not known before Sinai and that that Law was given only to Israel. In NT Jesus improve that Law and we have now Christ law!
I put this article because I was looking for proper answer on this claims. I really don t know what to think about this article but as time pass and I don't find any proper response I am tending to think that maybe writer of that article is right.
I hope that this is clear!


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Milan #53991 Fri Jun 16, 2017 6:15 AM
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What is clear to me is:

1. You want people to read the long and convoluted article which you think is the correct teaching concerning the law of God, but are unwilling to read even one much shorter article to which you have free and easy access.

2. You have avoided answering my question(s) to provide a brief summary of what your view is, how it differences from what the Church has overwhelming agreed upon in the three-fold division of the law of God; civil, ceremonial and moral, and what implications your view has upon the Church and mankind.

3. You appear to have an unchecked arrogance to think that the author, yourself and perhaps a few others have only recently discovered the true understanding of the law of God and that no one else since the Reformation has been able to grasp it and have embraced error. It seems to me that with the wide variety of scholars, clergy and educated laity who disagree on other points of doctrine but who agree on the three-fold division of God's law has a whole lot more weight going for them than you and this author. And, last, but not least, I myself who may not ever make the "Who's Who" of biblical scholars but as one who has studied the Bible for many decades, having a grasp of the original languages, and one who has read extensively the writings of godly men who have gone before me, agree with the 'historic' view as being consistent with Scripture.

4. You unfortunately have no appreciation for the Church which Christ established, having nailed the bond to the tree and joined together Jew and Gentile to make one new man to which He sent His Holy Spirit as it's guardian and teacher. The visible Church makes no claim to being perfect nor infallible as does the RCC, OE or RO organizations but it has made its voice known through the medium of Confessions and catechisms for the purpose of guarding against heresy and educating the laity. Interesting enough, the overwhelming majority of churches which came out of the Protestant Reformation wrote confessions which agree on 99% of what the Bible teaches, despite their minor disagreements on other things, e.g., baptism and church polity. The onus, therefore, rests upon you and those who would disagree with those secondary sources of truth to prove where they err from Scripture, to which none have been able to do in over 500 years. Good luck to you.

5. Lastly, I suspect that your only purpose of joining this board was to promote this obscure view of the law. And if I am correct on that assumption, I must tell you that your methodology is quite poor. You certainly have made little effort to interact with those who have asked you questions about your view, which even to now you have refused to make clear. Your only response has been to "read the article". Perhaps even you don't have a firm comprehension of what this author wrote? scratchchin That would certainly be one reasonable explanation why you haven't provided a summary and explanation of that article. Thus, if you insist that reading the article is the only response you have and refuse to read any article(s) referred to you, then methinks I will lock this thread. grin


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Milan #53992 Fri Jun 16, 2017 2:25 PM
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Milan
In your profile you stated you are "Reformed".
The evidence from this thread however seems to state otherwise.
You said you don't care what any confession states. Well you should, to not care is to say you are not Reformed.
That doesn't mean you accept everything it says as being 100% accurate. But when we disagree, the onus is on us, not the confession to prove from Scripture that it is wrong.
Pilgrim was very reasonable in asking you to provide a summary of what you want us to respond to.
Tom

Milan #53997 Wed Jun 21, 2017 4:56 AM
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I am sorry but for some reason I can not reach forum maybe because of my bad internet connection here my response for you and for Tom Because I am arrogant and want to promote this view it is not necessary to continue any conversation.
One of the reasons I couldn t make proper respond was that I had Internet in last few days and I could respond just through my phone and it was hard to respond through it. Not everybody live in the USA that can have privilege to have Internet all the time.
I was really hoping that in this forum I can find answers for some questions that I have but unfortunately not.
This idea about Law is not new and you can find it in many church fathers so it is not new.
You studied the Bible for decades so do I and I know Greek and some Hebrew and read a lot of church fathers. BTW that was the way how I come to doctrine of predestination and salvation by grace alone through faith alone.
I put that I am Reformed because I didn t know what else I should put. In my country I don t have close any Reformed church. Have some protestant but not Reformed. I am here alone that I know that in 100 kilometers believe. I DO APOLOGIZES THAT I PUT THAT I AM REFORMED AND THAT DISTURBED YOU HERE BY ASKING A QUESTIONS THAT I ASKED. Probably I will find the answers on some other forum.
Thank you for your patience! God bless you all!
p.s. This is 3 th time that I am trying to post but for some reasons i can not. I apologizes if i made problem.


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Milan #53998 Wed Jun 21, 2017 5:55 AM
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1. I don't consider your response to be a SUMMARY of your beliefs concerning the law found in Scripture. It was a simple request on my part but evidently you do not intend to provide an answer. scratchchin

2. You asked the members here to read that long and difficult article, but it seems you are not willing to read even one of the articles I provided a link for all of which are much shorter and cogent to read. Why is that?

3. The Church Fathers do provide interesting reading but unfortunately, it is widely known that they are hardly a reliable source of biblical truth. Most were fraught with errors and some serious damnable heretical errors. Even during the time when the Apostles walked on this earth they warned that false teachers and prophets existed and more would come and lead many astray. This has been true throughout the history of the Church and even Christ Himself said that His coming would be timely because the falling away of alleged believers would be en mass, so much so that if His coming were delayed even the elect would be carried away. The fact is, there has always been a remnant which the Spirit has preserved along with orthodoxy throughout the ages. The Church Fathers were unfortunately not generally part of that preservation.

4. Again, because you have chosen not to provide a summary of what your doctrine is concerning the law and its implications for the Christian life, I cannot help but conclude that you have an agenda which you are trying to promote. I do not recall any real question(s) you have asked which you sought answers.


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Milan #54025 Mon Jun 26, 2017 10:36 AM
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In order to be condidered to be reformed, one would have to uphold some type of Confession, correct?

JesusFan #54027 Mon Jun 26, 2017 12:11 PM
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Methinks this article by Richard Muller would answer your question: How Many Points?


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Pilgrim #54037 Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:06 AM
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Thanks!

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