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#57200
Sat Dec 11, 2021 8:00 PM
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Someone said:
“The reprobate were not simply the leftovers. God purposed both groups for two different ends. His hatred for the reprobate is just as eternal as His love for His elect. Creation serves redemption just as much as it does damnation. God is love(1 John 4:8) and the Lord is wrathful(Nahum 1:2) and He has desired to glorify Himself in creation through vessels of mercy unto glory and vessels of wrath unto eternal destruction. Saying that God just passed by the reprobate and they fit themselves for their destruction really denies the purpose of God in His glory over them in His wrath. God made/created everything with a purpose even the reprobate for wrath. If there’s no purpose of God in the destruction of the reprobate then election of the saints becomes nothing more than a lottery in essence. You were just one of the lucky few…….History is His Story. He has purposed everything and everything is unfolding according to His purpose.”
Accurate or not?
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In as far as it goes I find no fault in it. However, how God works out His eternal council in how He deals with the elect and the reprobate is where things begin to reveal some fundamental differences between those who agree on the above. I believe that God treats the reprobate with kindness, i.e, He is philanthropic toward the reprobate (cf. Titus 3:4 (love in the Greek is philanthropia; Matt 5:45; et al). 1) This kindness is genuine and well-meant. 2) It is this kindness and generosity which will yet be used against the reprobate due to their total rejection of it and denial that God bestowed it upon them. This does NOT mean I believe that Scripture teaches that God loves all men, for it is more than perspicuously written in Scripture that God loves only the elect which is salvific and He hates the wicked and desires their condemnation and eternal punishment. This includes my denial that God "desires/wills" the salvation of all men. IF that was true, then it would inescapably mean that all men, without exception, would be saved. See R.C. Sproul, Sr.'s article here: Double Predestination 
![[Linked Image]](http://www.the-highway.com/pilgrim/pil_sig2.gif) simul iustus et peccator![[Linked Image]](http://www.the-highway.com/Smileys/pencil.gif)
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1 member likes this:
Tom |
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But doesn't this quote from the Sproul article contradict the above?
"In the Reformed view God from all eternity decrees some to election and positively intervenes in their lives to work regeneration and faith by a monergistic work of grace. To the non-elect God withholds this monergistic work of grace, passing them by and leaving them to themselves."
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 Sproul was defending "Positive-Negative Predestination" and was of the view, of which I agree, that God's predestination is a definite determination of the end of all men, i.e., all being worthy of damnation, some He positively acts to change some (regeneration, justification, sanctification and glorification) to be saved. And, some He likewise for the rest; the reprobate, made a determination (decreed) that they should receive their just punishment. The "passing them by" refers to God's intervention of having mercy on the elect and giving them saving grace. It is NOT as some would say, that God left them to themselves whereby they 'earned' damnation due to their refusal to believe upon Christ.  ALL are worthy of damnation by nature and God's judgment rests upon them, cf. Rom 9:11-13; Jh 3:18, et al. Predestinate; to PRE-determine leaves no room for any gray area wherein there are individuals who could become elect or non-elect dependent upon their "free-will choice" or life. There are those who hold to Supralapsarianism and those who hold to Infralapsarianism. Are you familiar with those terms? They are used to differentiate the views on the order of God's decree(s). In a nutshell..... Supra's believe that God predestinated man without any regard to the Fall. Infra's believe that God predestinated all men in regard of the Fall. The WCF and most every Reformed confession or creed which includes this subject takes the Infralapsarian view. Supralapsarians have the serious hurdle of trying to defend the accusation that their view makes God the author of sin. Not to send you down a side path, but I would recommend the following: Election by G.H. Kersten Supralapsarianism and Infraplapsarianism by Herman Bavinck Double or Nothing: Martin Luther's Doctrine of Predestination by Brian G. Mattson There are a few more salient articles on The Highway, e.g., John Bunyan's treatise, Lorraine Boettner's discussion re: Predestination, etc. Are you contused yet? ![[Linked Image]](http://the-highway.com/Smileys/grin.gif) 
simul iustus et peccator
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The Supra and Infra is somewhat confusing, but I will read your recommendations and see if light dawns in the dark corners of my brain.
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The Supra and Infra is somewhat confusing, but I will read your recommendations and see if light dawns in the dark corners of my brain.  Yeh, this is without doubt a "deep" subject but it is one which are forefathers had to deal with and one which is inseparately foundational to what we call "Calvinism", the "Reformed Faith", "The Doctrines of Grace". Why? Because it reveals the sovereign omnipotent God who created all things for His own glory and His ineffable holiness who deemed it necessary to make Himself known through mercy, grace and holiness to the most undeserving of His creation. Is this truth absolutely necessary to grasp? No!! For to each is given a measure of ability and knowledge to comprehend the Scriptures which is necessary for each and every child of God for their edification and sanctification. But it is good to stretch our minds and search the Scriptures for those things which God through the Spirit chooses to reveal to us. Colossians 1:9-29 (ASV) 9 For this cause we also, since the day we heard [it], do not cease to pray and make request for you, that ye may be filled with the knowledge of his will in all spiritual wisdom and understanding, 10 to walk worthily of the Lord unto all pleasing, bearing fruit in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God; 11 strengthened with all power, according to the might of his glory, unto all patience and longsuffering with joy; 12 giving thanks unto the Father, who made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light; 13 who delivered us out of the power of darkness, and translated us into the kingdom of the Son of his love; 14 in whom we have our redemption, the forgiveness of our sins: 15 who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; 16 for in him were all things created, in the heavens and upon the earth, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; all things have been created through him, and unto him; 17 and he is before all things, and in him all things consist. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. 19 For it was the good pleasure [of the Father] that in him should all the fulness dwell; 20 and through him to reconcile all things unto himself, having made peace through the blood of his cross; through him, [I say], whether things upon the earth, or things in the heavens. 21 And you, being in time past alienated and enemies in your mind in your evil works, 22 yet now hath he reconciled in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and without blemish and unreproveable before him: 23 if so be that ye continue in the faith, grounded and stedfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel which ye heard, which was preached in all creation under heaven; whereof I Paul was made a minister. 24 Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and fill up on my part that which is lacking of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church; 25 whereof I was made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which was given me to you-ward, to fulfil the word of God, 26 [even] the mystery which hath been hid for ages and generations: but now hath it been manifested to his saints, 27 to whom God was pleased to make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: 28 whom we proclaim, admonishing every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ; 29 whereunto I labor also, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.
simul iustus et peccator
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I can't escape the truths that God is Love, and (not yet, but and) God is Just.
I am 90% sure I am among the reprobate, yet, I can and indeed must testify that even through a lifetime full of unbelief and other sin, God has been Good.
His Goodness and Love are such, that even toward a reprobate like me, they are infinitely better than the goodness and love of even the best of my fellow humans.
If He hates me . . . a possibility that I grant . . . His hatred is still better than the love of man.
The flip side is also true though. He is Just, and no one can escape His justice, except via the Cross.
The possibility occurs to me, though it is speculation, that reprobation is in fact an expression of His Love, as much as it is His Justice. That it may well be the best outcome possible for the reprobate. Consider the alternatives. Should we stand in His presence? We cannot, for He is Holy. Should He overlook our sin? He cannot, for the same reason. It must be dealt with, and it is, in Christ, for all those who are in Him, but not for those who are not His. Purgatory? Contrary to Scripture, and doesn't change anything, because no amount of suffering on our part can atone for the tiniest part of our tiniest sin (presuming any kind or part of sin can be called "tiny" to begin with, in that it is against a Holy God). "Limbo"? (a Catholic pretense of a state in which one is neither rewarded by God's presence, yet not actively tormented, as if a person who loved Him could experience His absence as anything short of infinite torment)? Also unbiblical and kind of self-contradictory.
Aspiring student of Christ
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