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#58178 Sun Nov 13, 2022 4:08 PM
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Tom Offline OP
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Here is something a person who claims to be an expert in the original languages said to me.

He said that contrary to what Conservative Christian’s claim, passages such as Romans one have absolutely nothing to do with homosexuality.
What most of us have today is an English translation from the Aramaic, which butcher the Scripture.
The original text has to do with pedophilia.
They went on to say, the text literally says: “no man shall lay with a boy.”

By the way; I usually just pass over things like this; however in this case; the person appears to be making people wonder.

Tom

Tom #58179 Sun Nov 13, 2022 5:31 PM
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1. So, the overwhelming majority of NT scholars throughout church history have been totally wrong and this one man is the bearer of truth?

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Romans 1:26-28 (ASV) 26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile passions: for their women [thelus: women, female] changed the natural use into that which is against nature: 27 and likewise also the men [arrhen: men, male], leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another, men with men working unseemliness, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was due. 28 And even as they refused to have God in [their] knowledge, God gave them up unto a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not fitting;
2. The NT was written in Greek, including the fact that some dialogue was spoken in Aramaic. We have the inspired Word in Greek, where did this "scholar" obtain an Aramaic copy of Romans 1? scratchchin

3. Tom, you have one of the finest NT scholars at your disposal; William Hendriksen's NT Commentary. Have you opened his volume on Romans (Chapters 1-8) and read what he wrote, including the salient more 'technical' comments at the bottom of each page?

4. WHO CARES what this false teacher has to say? No one of any impart will be swayed by this disciple of the Devil.

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2 Peter 2:1-2 (ASV) 1 But there arose false prophets also among the people, as among you also there shall be false teachers, who shall privily bring in destructive heresies, denying even the Master that bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. 2 And many shall follow their lascivious doings; by reason of whom the way of the truth shall be evil spoken of.


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Pilgrim #58180 Sun Nov 13, 2022 7:32 PM
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Pilgrim

I am trying to research this particular issue, from many different resources, including Hendriksen.

This particular issue is becoming a bit personal to me. Mainly, because I am starting to get more and more people I know, including friends and relatives. Who have been affected one way or another by the LBGQT+ agenda.

My niece, was brought up in an abusive Church, was really hurt by them. Including the fact that her childhood best friend is not allowed to have anything to do with her, or anyone else who left the Church. This is from the leadership of that Church, who say everyone who left (there are lots of people who left) needs to repent and come back. My niece, now said she never ever wants anything to do with "fundamentalist Christianity" and now identifies as a "Progressive Christian."

I just heard some sad news from my wife's cousin. Her adult daughter, fully transitioned to a man a few years ago; now has stomach cancer and the doctor gives her about 8 months to live.

I have quite a few other friends and relatives with similar stories and all of them came from Christian homes.

I have actually studied Romans chapter one (and parallel passages) a fair amount in the past year. However, this particular issue from the original languages is one that so called Progressives are using as a tool to deceive others.

By the way, I know there is no such thing as a "magic bullet" when it comes to things like this. However, I do think I need to equip myself more to stand against the issue.

Thanks

Tom

Tom #58182 Sun Nov 13, 2022 8:46 PM
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All this is personal and it has NOTHING to do with the truth concerning Romans 1 and homosexuality!! nono

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The original text has to do with pedophilia.
They went on to say, the text literally says: “no man shall lay with a boy.”
What "original text"? NO ONE has the original hand-written letter to the Romans. It doesn't matter if one holds to the Textus Receptus or the Nestle-Arndt text. They are nearly identical and the context as well as the relevant passages clearly speak of homosexuality and not pedophilia. In fact, the Bible as a whole teaches that homosexuality in whatever form is an abomination. This enemy of God can use all the hermeneutical gymnastics he wants, but he cannot get around that homosexuality is against nature itself and condemned by God.

Also, I quoted 2Peter 2:1,2 for good reason which speaks directly to all the personal calamities and rejection of God's truth which you are being faced with. A true Christian cannot... CANNOT embrace homosexuality or condone it or claim Scripture doesn't mention it. A biblical church would more than likely start discipline proceedings against anyone who made such claims and if they refused to repent, they would be excommunicated; their profession of faith would be found false.

You claim to have studied Romans chapter one and parallel passages, etc. yet you admit to being thrown off by some moron who claims all scholars in the past have been ignorant of the 'original languages'. But he/they/it are God's anointed who are bringing forth the lost truth? igiveup

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Galatians 1:6-9 (ASV) 6 I marvel that ye are so quickly removing from him that called you in the grace of Christ unto a different gospel; 7 which is not another [gospel] only there are some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, should preach unto you any gospel other than that which we preached unto you, let him be anathema. 9 As we have said before, so say I now again, if any man preacheth unto you any gospel other than that which ye received, let him be anathema.
We are living in the last days when many will walk away from the truth for whatever reason, which God has ordained to show His mercy and grace to those who fail not to run the race and face persecution from within the Church and without. Remember how it was in Jesus' day when thousands turned their backs on the Son of God and walked with Him no more because of His hard sayings? And when this occurred He turned to His disciples and asked them, "John 6:67-68 (ASV) 67 Jesus said therefore unto the twelve, Would ye also go away? 68 Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life." strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. (Matt 7:14)


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Tom #58184 Sun Nov 13, 2022 11:10 PM
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Pilgrim

You said:
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You claim to have studied Romans chapter one and parallel passages, etc. yet you admit to being thrown off by some moron who claims all scholars in the past have been ignorant of the 'original languages'. But he/they/it are God's anointed who are bringing forth the lost truth?

I made no such claim that I have been thrown off by some moron. In fact, I tried to tell you that he has not fooled me.

What I did say is because I have no real knowledge of the original languages he made mention of. I am not going to pretend I to; instead I am going to try to research that aspect more.

What I know from experience is that people like that often try to use aspects like that, in order to make themselves look good. However, if one actually calls their bluff and researches the issue; most of the time they are revealed for what they are.

My main concern at the moment, is not for myself. Rather for newer believers, whom this guy is trying to fool. It certainly does not hurt me, to know the issue better either.


The rest of what you said is helpful, thanks.

Tom

Last edited by Tom; Sun Nov 13, 2022 11:46 PM.
Tom #58187 Mon Nov 14, 2022 2:05 PM
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Homosexual sin has been around for nearly as long as recorded history.

However, I'm pretty sure we live in the only time in history that people claiming to be "Christians" tried to twist the very Word of God Himself to try to defend it.

Lord Jesus, please come quickly.


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Tom #58188 Tue Nov 15, 2022 12:06 AM
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I am glad I studied this issue further.
Other than some of the things Pilgrim already mentioned of which I appreciate.

I thought I would give an example of other things I found.

Quote
Romans is not translated from the Aramaic but rather the Greek which literally says in Romans 1:27 - “men(ἄρσην) likewise abandoning the natural function of women being inflamed in their desire with one another.” No use of the word for homosexual, just the content of it.
The Old Testament passages in Leviticus also are not translated from the Aramaic but rather the Hebrew.
22 You shall not lie with a male(זָכָר) as with a woman; it is an abomination. (Lev. 18:22) (see similar in Lev. 20:13, “if a man (אִישׁ) lies with a male (זָכָר) as with a woman it is an abomination”)
The Greek Old Testament (LXX) translates the word male using (ἄρσην), the same Greek term used in Romans meaning ‘male’.

Those who try to argue for pedophila use an argument surrounding the actual terms for homosexuality (ἀρσενοκοίτης & μαλακός) seek to use extra biblical arguments for etymology to make a case that is relatively new and has never been an argument before modern times.
There are no end to these types of arguments and doesn’t get around the context of the text which in the OT and NT seem to be pretty clear.


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