Looked at a rush remodel job last week that was so many patches it was hard to give a firm estimate on how long it would take. I got started on Friday and could see that what I thought was a couple of days work would in fact be 3. Came in on Saturday but everyone was still upset that I had thrown the schedule off. So, you guessed it. I let them talk me into coming in on Sunday.
Monday morning I got up telling myself what a good guy I was to make such a sacrifice for others. Dropped my daughter off at school, was headed to the job thinking how I would finish up early, and get paid by by the grateful customers, but...
Before I got there my phone rang. It was the school telling me to come get my sick daughter. Spent most of Monday waiting in the Dr's office. Wound up finishing late Tuesday. Still waiting on the check.
My old pastor used to say that. However, he was quite happy to get on a bus to take him to church on Sunday and did not even think about the fact that his Monday newspaper and loaf of bread were made by folk on Sunday <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
BookMark said: My old pastor used to say that. However, he was quite happy to get on a bus to take him to church on Sunday and did not even think about the fact that his Monday newspaper and loaf of bread were made by folk on Sunday <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Sounds like your old pastor was a very wise man who didn't allow himself to fall into Pharisaism and the traditions of men. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> The history of the abuse of "what is legitimate" on the Sabbath is unfortunately abundant as much as it is sad.
Good points. I would also ask what about those who have no choice if they want to have a job to work on Sunday? Hotel managers for example have no choice but to work as well to supervise hotel staff. The only choice they would have is to shut the hotel down every Sunday. Believe me, as someone who use to be in that industry, it isn't going to happen.
BookMark said: Thats right Pilgrim, he was perfectly happy to let others work for his Sunday.<img src="/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Well, you lost me again with that reply, my friend. I simply don't know what that statement means, especially when I compare it with your first statement concerning your former pastor. They don't seem to congeal, at least in my mind. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/scratch1.gif" alt="" />
Tom, if you or anyone else has to work Sunday as part of their "job description"- then work you must , or get fired.
I PERSONALLY see no problem for a Christian employee having to work on Sunday , whether a Brain Surgeon or a Road Sweeper.<img src="/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
BookMark said: My former pastor was a strict Sabbatarian but he was quite happy that others should work on Sunday, ie, the bus driver, the printer and the baker.
So, he was a hypocrite! Thanks for clarifying that for me, Mark. I believe both of you are in error in your views; your former pastor for being a "strict Sabbatarian (yet to be defined)" who restricts the keeping of the Sabbath to an individual choice. And yourself, who denies the authority of the Sabbath upon anyone.
I can see even more clearly now why you haven't been able to find a church home. You say that you want a "WCF Church". Do you REALLY want to find a church that believes and upholds the Westminster Confession of Faith?
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[color:"blue"]The Westminster Confession of Faith, Chapter XXI Of Religious Worship, and the Sabbath Day
VII. As it is the law of nature, that, in general, a due proportion of time be set apart for the worship of God; so, in his Word, by a positive, moral, and perpetual commandment binding all men in all ages, he hath particularly appointed one day in seven, for a Sabbath, to be kept holy unto him:[34] which, from the beginning of the world to the resurrection of Christ, was the last day of the week,[35] and, from the resurrection of Christ, was changed into the first day of the week, which, in Scripture, is called the Lord's day,[36] and is to be continued to the end of the world, as the Christian Sabbath.[37]
34. Exod. 20:8-11; Isa. 56:2- 7 35. Gen. 2:2-3; I Cor. 16:1-2; Acts 20:7 36. Rev. 1:10 37. Matt. 5:17-18; Mark 2:27-28; Rom. 13:8-10; James 2:8-12
VIII. This Sabbath is then kept holy unto the Lord, when men, after a due preparing of their hearts, and ordering of their common affairs beforehand, do not only observe an holy rest, all the day, from their own works, words, and thoughts about their worldly employments and recreations,[38] but also are taken up, the whole time, in the public and private exercises of his worship, and in the duties of necessity and mercy.[39]
38. Exod. 16:23, 25-26, 29-30; 20:8; 31:15-17; Isa. 58:13-14; Neh. 13:15-22 39. Isa. 58:13-14; Luke 4:16; Matt. 12:1-13; Mark 3:1-5
I would recommend you read this series: The Sabbath Question, by James MacGregor.
No man alive can keep the Sabbath holy - try as they might.
But is that a valid excuse in light of Scripture? The issue people seem to be debating is how to keep the Sabbath holy and not whether or not to keep it holy.
True godliness is a sincere feeling which loves God as Father as much as it fears and reverences Him as Lord, embraces His righteousness, and dreads offending Him worse than death~ Calvin
What are we forbidden from doing on the Sabbath Marie ?
There are many legalists who would say we can do this or not do that on the Sabbath etc.etc , just as it was in the Apostles time.
I just finished :"The Mystery of Israel" by H L Ellison and he makes a good point when he says :" Whenever Christian moralists have sought to work out a fixed code for Christian behavior, both the methods used and the results have had a markedly general resemblance to those of the Jewish "legalists" they rejected out of hand."
I am just getting the tiniest bit confused with where you are coming from! <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> You said
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No man alive can keep the Sabbath holy - try as they might
As no man alive can perfectly keep any of the Law of God, are you saying that we are under no obligation to try and keep any of it? Also, it would be helpful if you could answer the following part of Pilgrim's question:
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You say that you want a "WCF Church". Do you REALLY want to find a church that believes and upholds the Westminster Confession of Faith?
If your answer is in the affirmative, what would you do about Chapter XX1 section vii and viii which Pilgrim quoted?
I just finished :"The Mystery of Israel" by H L Ellison and he makes a good point when he says :" Whenever Christian moralists have sought to work out a fixed code for Christian behavior, both the methods used and the results have had a markedly general resemblance to those of the Jewish "legalists" they rejected out of hand."
Mark,
Let's cut to the chase, shall we? If you are in agreement with this H.L. Ellison, where he says, "Whenever Christian moralists have sought to work out a fixed code for Christian behavior . . ." then one must conclude that he and you are 100% Antinomians, i.e., no man, especially Christians are under ANY FORM OF LAW which would dictate behaviour.
QUESTION: Do you hold that Christians are under no obligation to any law whatsoever that would dictate their behaviour?
If your answer is "Yes", then that alone will be sufficient. If, however, your answer is "No", then could you please try and explain how the apostle Paul and anyone who follows his teaching concerning the perpetuity and binding authority of God's moral law are "legalists" and therefore subject to condemnation?
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I believe both of you are in error in your views; your former pastor for being a "strict Sabbatarian (yet to be defined)" who restricts the keeping of the Sabbath to an individual choice. And yourself, who denies the authority of the Sabbath upon anyone.
