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Let me only say in regard to your ad hominem slur, that if you are asking if I need a walker to read Greek, the answer is no. Doubtless, I have forgotten more from my many years of Greek study than you have learned in your one semester study.
Congragulations on you advanced Greek study. My comment was far from being a slur. I have had people before claim Greek when it was obvious they had no clue. I have been honest about my lack of Greek (one semester completed, grade a). You are quoting from the Greek as though you know what you are talking about...whilst making some blunders. I accept that blunders can be made, but calling gennesthai an aorist, at least i think warrants me asking about your abilities in the language without you taking it as a personal attack (ad hominem). Don't you think? so don't get worked up because i dared to ask. i accept that you are well trained in greek.
The Aorist Indicative is frequently used in narrative passages of a past event which precedes another past event mentioned or implied in the context.
You would call this a narrative passage?
You wrote
FYI, "who were born" in the Greek is genesthai, which is an aorist infinitive which denotes a past action, i.e., "who had been born".
We understand that you wrote the wrong Greek word, but here you say that the aorist, which by definition is without aspect, has a pluperfect aspect of "had been born".
First, it may be used to describe an action or event in its entirety. This use of the tense, since it is by far the most frequent, may be called by preeminence the Indefinite Aorist. In the Indicative it may be called the Historical Aorist. The Aorist of any verb may be used in this sense; thus eivpei/n, to say; diakon/hsai, to serve. The Aorist for the Perfect and the Aorist for the Pluperfect are, as explained below (52), not distinct functions of the Aorist, but merely special cases of the Historical, Inceptive, or Resultative Aorist. Syntax of the Moods and Tenses in New Testament Greek, Ernest De Witt Burton,
And especially
The Historical Aorist. The Aorist Indicative is most frequently used to express a past event viewed in its entirety, simply as an event or a single fact. It has no reference to the progress of the event, or to ANY EXISTING RESULT OF IT.
and again
Instances of the Greek Aorist for the English Pluperfect arise when a past event which is conceived of simply as an event without reference to existing result is mentioned out of its chronological order, or is expressed in a subordinate clauses The Greek employs the Aorist, leaving the context to suggest the order; the English usually suggests the order by the use of a Pluperfect.
I cannot see how this applies here at all. The double use of the word gennao ties the second use, "who were BORN," to the first, "to them who received him he gave the right to BE BORN children of God."
A Pluperfect is strictly required only when the precedence in time is somewhat prominent. The Revisers of 1881 have used the Pluperfect sparingly in such cases. It might better have been used also in Matt. 9:25; Mark 8:14; John 12:18 (had heard).
The rest I will address when I have further time.
Zion Seeker
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Is man required to "choose" in order to be saved?
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Sun Apr 21, 2013 7:04 PM
One more thing
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Mon Mar 29, 2004 11:18 AM
focusing on Faith
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Re: Is man required to "choose" in order to be sav
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Pilgrim
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Wed Feb 11, 2004 1:27 PM
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Bladestunner316
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Wed Feb 11, 2004 11:01 PM
Re: Is man required to "choose" in order to be sav
Bladestunner316
Thu Feb 12, 2004 10:20 PM
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Anonymous
Fri Feb 13, 2004 9:38 AM
Re: Is man required to "choose" in order to be sav
janean
Thu Mar 11, 2004 5:42 PM
Re: Is man required to "choose" in order to be sav
Pilgrim
Thu Mar 11, 2004 5:47 PM
Re: Is man required to "choose" in order to be sav
janean
Thu Mar 11, 2004 10:59 PM
Re: Is man required to "choose" in order to be sav
Pilgrim
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Re: Is man required to "choose" in order to be sav
janean
Fri Mar 12, 2004 1:41 AM
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Pilgrim
Fri Mar 12, 2004 2:35 AM
Re: Is man required to "choose" in order to be sav
CovenantInBlood
Fri Mar 12, 2004 4:27 AM
Re: Is man required to "choose" in order to be sav
Tom
Fri Mar 12, 2004 5:31 AM
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Anonymous
Sat Mar 13, 2004 12:16 AM
Re: Is man required to "choose" in order to be sav
Cranmer
Mon Apr 22, 2013 9:10 PM
Re: Is man required to "choose" in order to be sav
Cranmer
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Cranmer
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chestnutmare
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Pilgrim
Mon Apr 22, 2013 4:41 PM
YES!
J_Edwards
Thu Apr 01, 2004 2:35 AM
Re: YES!
Tom
Thu Apr 01, 2004 5:44 AM
Re: YES!
J_Edwards
Thu Apr 01, 2004 11:04 PM
Re: Is man required to "choose" in order to be saved?
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Cranmer
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Pilgrim
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Tom
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Tom
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Cranmer
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Thu Jun 06, 2013 4:03 PM
Re: Is man required to "choose" in order to be sav
042Dave
Fri Jan 08, 2021 11:35 AM
Re: Is man required to "choose" in order to be sav
brightfame52
Wed Feb 03, 2021 2:55 PM
Re: Is man required to "choose" in order to be sav
Pilgrim
Wed Feb 03, 2021 4:41 PM
Re: Is man required to "choose" in order to be sav
brightfame52
Wed Feb 03, 2021 11:34 PM
Re: Is man required to "choose" in order to be sav
Pilgrim
Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:05 AM
Re: Is man required to "choose" in order to be sav
Tom
Thu Feb 04, 2021 1:53 AM
Re: Is man required to "choose" in order to be saved?
brightfame52
Thu Feb 04, 2021 5:56 AM
Re: Is man required to "choose" in order to be saved?
Pilgrim
Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:16 PM
Re: Is man required to "choose" in order to be saved?
brightfame52
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Re: Is man required to "choose" in order to be saved?
Pilgrim
Thu Feb 04, 2021 2:52 PM
Re: Is man required to "choose" in order to be saved?
brightfame52
Thu Feb 04, 2021 5:04 PM
Re: Is man required to "choose" in order to be saved?
Pilgrim
Thu Feb 04, 2021 5:41 PM
Re: Is man required to "choose" in order to be saved?
brightfame52
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Re: Is man required to "choose" in order to be saved?
Pilgrim
Fri Feb 05, 2021 11:28 AM
Re: Is man required to "choose" in order to be saved?
brightfame52
Thu Feb 04, 2021 6:20 PM
Re: Is man required to "choose" in order to be saved?
Pilgrim
Fri Feb 05, 2021 12:17 PM
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brightfame52
Fri Feb 05, 2021 12:26 PM
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brightfame52
Fri Feb 05, 2021 12:31 PM
Re: Is man required to "choose" in order to be saved?
Andy
Tue Mar 09, 2021 5:29 PM
Re: Is man required to "choose" in order to be saved?
brightfame52
Sun Mar 14, 2021 5:57 PM
Re: Is man required to "choose" in order to be saved?
godrulez
Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:18 PM
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