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#15923 Tue Jul 06, 2004 6:51 PM
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Dear Highway Members,

I hope you are well, today.

Do you think you've found an error in the Bible? Have you heard an argument against the Bible's inerrancy that you couldn't answer?

I've studied hundreds of alleged Bible errors and I've found answers to them all. I conclude that the Bible is a book without error. Glory to God.

If you think you've found an error, then please post it. I'd be happy to post the answer and if I don't know the answer, then I'll research it and post what I find.

May God richly bless you.

Sincerely,
Jason Gastrich
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Hi Jason,
It would be nice if you posted what people think are errors, and then give the correct view.

How do you explain Jesus, said he would be in paradise that day, and later when he arose from the tomb, he told mary not to touch him, he had not be to the father yet.

Any body can help me with this, if you like.
Just in case Jason only came here to get people to buy his book.

Thankyou neicey

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How do you explain Jesus, said he would be in paradise that day, and later when he arose from the tomb, he told mary not to touch him, he had not be to the father yet.
Excellent question. The tense of the action here (John 20:17) reveals the cutting off of an action that has already begun. In essence, Jesus was saying, “stop hanging on to my physical body “now”, or do not think, that by holding me firmly, you can keep me always with you in this present state (Matt. 28:9). Mary, as all Christians, desired to be in an uninterruptible fellowship with Christ. Jesus was telling her that she must wait until He has ascended to the Father (only then would the Holy Spirit come). PLEASE note that Jesus did not object to being touched (remember His words to Thomas). What He was concerned with was Mary’s mistaken idea that the former form of fellowship was going to continue as it was before. What Christ was revealing was that His relationship with her and others would now be changed. The fellowship would continue, but it would be far richer. The fellowship now would be the communion of the ascended Lord in the Spirit with His Church. (Hendriksen's Commentary on John is excellent here).


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What biblical evidence to you use to support Arminianism?


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Jason,
I also do not believe the Bible has "errors." I would strongly affirm biblical inerrancy. However, it would be helpful to get an answer to Joe's question: How exactly are you defining error? If by error you mean no translational errors as the KJV only advocates insist, then I would disagree with that definition. I prefer the statement made with in the Chicago Statement on Inerrancy regarding the nature of alleged biblical errors. It states:

Quote
C. Infallibility, Inerrancy, Interpretation
Holy Scripture, as the inspired Word of God witnessing authoritatively to Jesus Christ, may properly be called 'infallible' and 'inerrant'. These negative terms have a special value, for they explicitly safeguard crucial positive truths.

'Infallible' signifies the quality of neither misleading nor being misled and so safeguards in categorical terms the truth that Holy Scripture is a sure, safe and reliable rule and guide in all matters.

Similarly, 'inerrant' signifies the quality of being free from all falsehood or mistake and so safeguards the truth that Holy Scripture is entirely true and trustworthy in all its assertions.

We affirm that canonical Scripture should always be interpreted on the basis that it is infallible and inerrant. However, in determining what the God-taught writer is asserting in each passage, we must pay the most careful attention to its claims and character as a human production. In inspiration, God utilized the culture and conventions of his penman's milieu, a milieu that God controls in His sovereign providence; it is misinterpretation to imagine otherwise.

So history must be treated as history, poetry as poetry, hyperbole and metaphor as hyperbole and metaphor, generalization and approximation as what they are, and so forth. Differences between literary conventions in Bible times and in ours must also be observed: Since, for instance, nonchronological narration and imprecise citation were conventional and acceptable and violated no expectations in those days, we must not regard these things as faults when we find them in Bible writers. When total precision of a particular kind was not expected nor aimed at, it is no error not to have achieved it. Scripture is inerrant, not in the sense of being absolutely precise by modern standards, but in the sense of making good its claims and achieving that measure of focused truth at which its authors aimed.

The truthfulness of Scripture is not negated by the appearance in it of irregularities of grammar or spelling, phenomenal descriptions of nature, reports of false statements (for example, the lies of Satan), or seeming discrepancies between one passage and another. It is not right to set the so-called "phenomena" of Scripture against the teaching of Scripture about itself. Apparent inconsistencies should not be ignored. Solution of them, where this can be convincingly achieved, will encourage our faith, and where for the present no convincing solution is at hand we shall significantly honor God by trusting His assurance that His Word is true, despite these appearances, and by maintaining our confidence that one day they will be seen to have been illusions.

Inasmuch as all Scripture is the product of a single divine mind, interpretation must stay within the bounds of the analogy of Scripture and eschew hypotheses that would correct one Biblical passage by another, whether in the name of progressive revelation or of the imperfect enlightenment of the inspired writer's mind.

Although Holy Scripture is nowhere culture-bound in the sense that its teaching lacks universal validity, it is sometimes culturally conditioned by the customs and conventional views of a particular period, so that the application of its principles today calls for a different sort of action.

Just out of curiousity, how would you reconcile the age discrepancies for Jehoiachin as listed in 2Kings 24:8 and 2 Chronicles 36:9?

Fred

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Welcome Jason. Would you also be interested in posting responses concerning dispensationalism, rapture, arminian soteriology and legalism? Thanks.


God bless,

william

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<img src="/forum/images/graemlins/hello.gif" alt="" /> Welcome, Jason!

I, like the others, am interested in how you defend Arminianism, dispensationalism, legalism, and Bible codes. (You probably will want to post this as a new thread, since it would be [color:"FF0000"]<tt><table style="filter:glow (color=#FFFF00 strength=2)"><span style="background-color:#FFFFFF">OFF TOPIC</span></table></tt>[/color].

Also, how did you find the Highway? You can post that to this thread here <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


True godliness is a sincere feeling which loves God as Father as much as it fears and reverences Him as Lord, embraces His righteousness, and dreads offending Him worse than death~ Calvin
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Hi All,

Thanks for the warm welcome.

In this topic, I'm only going to be discussing alleged Bible errors. I'm looking forward to sharing what I've learned. I may discuss something else in another topic, but not right now.

Thanks again and God bless.

Jason Gastrich
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fredman said:
Jason,
I also do not believe the Bible has "errors." I would strongly affirm biblical inerrancy. However, it would be helpful to get an answer to Joe's question: How exactly are you defining error? If by error you mean no translational errors as the KJV only advocates insist, then I would disagree with that definition. I prefer the statement made with in the Chicago Statement on Inerrancy regarding the nature of alleged biblical errors. It states:

I'm not a KJV-onlyist, but the KJV is an excellent translation.

*quote snipped for brevity*

Thanks for posting this quote on inerrancy.

Quote
Just out of curiousity, how would you reconcile the age discrepancies for Jehoiachin as listed in 2Kings 24:8 and 2 Chronicles 36:9?

Fred

Jehoiachin was 18 years old when he began to reign. This number is consistent with many modern translations and ancient manuscripts.

God bless,
Jason Gastrich
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Jehoiachin was 18 years old when he began to reign. This number is consistent with many modern translations and ancient manuscripts.

(Fred) How then do you explain the 8 years old in 2 Chron. 36:9? Would my particular solution be acceptable, why or why not?:

Taken from my article on the subject:

Quote
The most biblical and logical solution hinges on the phrase 8 years old of 2 Chronicles 36:9. The 8 years does not refer to the actual age of Jehoiachin, but is a time marker pointing to an event; i.e., the first invasion of Judah by Nebuchadnezzar and the Babylonians. In 605 B.C., Nebuchadnezzar invaded the Mediterranean countries including Palestine. It was then when Daniel and many others were taken to Babylon in what was to be the start of 3 deportations. The second was in 598-597 B.C. with the taking of Jehoiakim. The Babylonians left Jehoiachin in power, but only for 3 months (2 Chron. 36:9 gives the exact figure of 3 months, 10 days). Like his father, Jehoiachin rebelled and the Babylonians returned and took him as well, leaving his brother Zedekiah as king. Jehoiachin's capture would had been 8 years after Nebuchadnezzar came to power, and thus the reason 2 Chronicles 36:9 has "8 years old." Second Kings 24:12 affirms this position where it says, "and the king of Babylon took him (Jehoiachin) in the 8th year of his (Nebuchadnezzar) reign." Literally, the Hebrew text reads in 2 Chronicles 36:9, "A son of 8 years..." On some occasions the biblical writers will count chronological dates from significant events. Such is the case here with Jehoiachin. The writer of Chronicles is reckoning his capture from the time Nebuchadnezzar came to rule Babylon. Ezekiel, for example, does this in his book. He reckons dates and years from the captivity of Judah, (Ez. 1:7, 33:21, 40:1). Another example is found in 2 Chronicles 16:1 where the 36th year spoken of Asa may refer to the number of years after the division of the kingdom in 930 B.C., rather than his actual years as king.
Fred


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Hi Fred,

Your quote may be sound. The 8 years may not refer to his age when he started ruling. The other possibility is that some translations simply got it wrong. However, not all translations are incorrect because some manuscripts are correct.

Sincerely,
Jason
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There is not an issue of translation per se. The Hebrew Masoretic text has 8 years in 2 Chronicles 36:9, and as far as I have been able to ascertain, there is no textual variant within the Masora tradition. There may be a discrepancy between the LXX and the Hebrew, but the LXX is a translation, and the translators may had done what many translators do with such apparent textual problems: work in their own solution that may not be sound at all. Thus, the issue still comes down to the integrity of the Hebrew text, and how to explain the problem using a reasonable, biblical approach. My personal contention is that not all such problems often labelled as "copyist errors" are necessarily copyist errors. It could just be a problem with us, the reader, and to sweep every example of a problem text under the carpet of "copyist error," is playing loose with the word of God.

Fred


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Hi Fred,

As you may know, I have written a book where I give nearly 4,000 answers to alleged Bible errors. As I did my research, I noticed that some people quickly used the "copyist error" approach. However, I did not. Even in this thread, I did not mention a copyist error because I do not think that this is the case.

God bless,
Jason

P.S. If you want to see my CD-ROM and workbook, you can see them here: http://skepticsannotatedbible.org

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In this particular instance, then, how exactly do you explain the number 8? Is it a copyist error, or do you have some other solution. The one you offered up above was rather vague.

Fred


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fredman said:
In this particular instance, then, how exactly do you explain the number 8? Is it a copyist error, or do you have some other solution. The one you offered up above was rather vague.

Fred

Some Hebrew manuscripts, the Septuagint, and the Syriac all say 18. Perhaps the mistranslations happened due to a copyist error, but that is not the explanation for the alleged error. Since some Hebrew manuscripts, the Septuagint, the Syriac, and 2 Kings 24:8 do say 18, we can rest assured that the number is 18 and some translations simply got it wrong.

God bless,
Jason
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