Curious why is okay to smoke a Geneva pipe but not marijuana?
To all the Post
I greatly appreciate ACTS2027 write up - I have no doubt that putting any particulate matter into your lungs is not healthy - especially the exhaust from the automobiles that we all drive - I know my lungs have suffered by living next to an Interstate.
However, we want to clearly separate what is a Health/Medical issue from an Ethical/Righteousness issue from a Civil/Criminal issue. Regarding the non-violent activity of smoking plant material, I think this is something that each of us chooses to do before the Lord with all recognition of the negative effects it has on our body (though we remember that our bodies are decaying day by day - so perhaps, frankly, it is really not that big of a deal). If we make others uncomfortable, we can easily shift to the privacy of our own homes. I don't want to look at smoking as a "temptation" if it is a result of willful decision by the smoker - this is the imposition of one's ethic onto another which is very contrary to the teaching and spirit of Christ (the Pharisees were quite good at it though...).
In reply to:[color:"blue"]However, we want to clearly separate what is a Health/Medical issue from an Ethical/Righteousness issue from a Civil/Criminal issue. Regarding the non-violent activity of smoking plant material, I think this is something that each of us chooses to do before the Lord with all recognition of the negative effects it has on our body (though we remember that our bodies are decaying day by day - so perhaps, frankly, it is really not that big of a deal). If we make others uncomfortable, we can easily shift to the privacy of our own homes.
Man talk about a politically correct way of speaking about marijuana-non-violent activity of smoking plant material. But, what is non-violent? Is it some kid who has just smoked a roach and goes out into the freeway and dances causing a 17 car pile up? Is it a group of adults having an orgy in a public park after their smoke? Is it driving the wrong way on the interstate and killing a mother and her child? Everyone of these examples are from someone smoking "regular" marijuana--the tests said the equivalent to one roach...and nothing more.
Legally it all is an issue as God tells us to obey the rules of man--Romans 13:1-4, et. al. In states where it is legal, your body is still the temple of God-drugs kill-I have seen their results too many time (ex-homicide detective). Drugs are regulated for a purpose in that it is known that they can harm in some ways, thus their regulation. The regulation is for our good and not some evil conspiracy (well for the most part). We are to listen to the wisdom of others. God gave us government officials/doctors by His design. We should listen, et. al. (of course, we have to draw the line in the amount of listening and obedience within Scriptural guidelines...). IMHO the Holy Scripture tells us to treat our bodies good.
PS: the Geneva Pipe idea was a personal joke between me and another. When you have been here longer you will learn who that is. BTW welcome to the forum. [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/hello.gif" alt="hello" title="hello[/img]
Thanks for the welcome. It has been interesting/stimulating (I don't do this much and from time to time good to enter the foray of other thoughts!). And thanks for the clarification re: Pipe (that was the hook that got me to respond).
re: mj I will assume your examples are true (I would be interested in the references if you have them). The reality is that normal people do not use mj and then go have an orgy (that sounds like "Reefer Madness" mentality to me - most people know better by now - frankly, I am not sure they could concentrate long enough to accomplish said activity (I would have that little laughing guy here once I figure it out)). As ex-homicide detective, you know that THC tends to cause people to gear down and that the simple act of smoking of any plant material (rose flowers, hemp flowers or tobacco leaves is a non-violent activity). Now alcohol can cause violent reactions particularly among some (though does not have that effect on me). My main point, is we need to separate out the well stated health issues from the other issues in order to think clearly about this or any matter.
In reply to:[color:"blue"]The reality is that normal people do not use mj and then go have an orgy (that sounds like "Reefer Madness" mentality to me - most people know better by now - frankly, I am not sure they could concentrate long enough to accomplish said activity (I would have that little laughing guy here once I figure it out)).
They were arrested before they "accomplished" anything thus we will never know [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/rofl.gif" alt="rofl" title="rofl[/img] The examples I gave are ones I have personally witnessed and recalled. THC does cause people to gear down as you say. It causes them to be indifferent to things as well and to subject their "will power" to a deadening effect and thus the activity that sometimes will follow. Early studies of THC indicate also it affects different people in different ways (metabolism, et. al.).
In reply to:[color:"blue"]My main point, is we need to separate out the well stated health issues from the other issues in order to think clearly about this or any matter.
The Scripture IMHO addresses both the "health issue" and the "other issues" in the matter of what we should and should not do. For instance my mother takes chemo/radiation treatments every week for her leukemia. Now should everyone go out and take chemo/radiation treatments? No, it is bad for their body overall. It will kill you in time and in incorrect doses, et. al.. Should me mother? Well yes for in the regulation it is being given in she will live longer.......and in the midst of it all glorify God, which I may say she does very well--great mother! Thus health issues, regulation for safety, et. al. are a biblical concern.
Also, other issues are of concern as well. If the government controls something and we can obey it without violating the Scriptures then we are responsible to obey and not to is sin--Rom 13. God did not say smoke and not inhale--that is Clinton's bible not God's. Now, when we obey these things and teach that we should obey these things it should not be done legalistically, but in the realization that we have grace (power) that we may obey these things.
Yeah, it's a serious question. I mean, it seems like a distinction between tobacco and pot is pretty tough, in that both have instantaneous effects. Is it that pot makes you instantaneously "drunk"? I read an article from Doug Wilson ("One Toke Over The Line") where one of his main reasons for why it's wrong to smoke pot is that it's "medicine," and medicine can't be used for celebratory purposes. But, what about tobacco? The effects are instantaneous with tobacco, and it's more akin to "medicine," so like caffeine, wouldn't a celebratory use be prohibited? The bible doesn't talk about tobacco, so I guess tobacco's more like caffeine, and pot is in it's own category? I guess talking through it, I see what the answer is . . . is it just that pot makes you instantaneously "drunk"? Thanks, and sorry if this is a stupid question. I just wonder about whether someone has done an historical examination about this, and see if the historic church (e.g., prior to 1850, to pick a date at random) ever talked about pot. You see those little stamps on one dollar bills, with George Washington saying "I grew hemp." So, if he grew hemp, doesn't it stand to reason that he (or other people throughout history) could have smoked pot, and before a time where it's been made illegal and it has this huge cultural stigma attached to it. Don't get me wrong, I'm coming out of the AOG, and am enjoying some wonderful newfound liberties (the best of all is a liberty from sin) in healthy ways, and if pot's wrong, it's wrong, and I'm not here trying to justify some activity that I want to participate in. Maybe I'm just re-examining a lot of things and making sure that I understand the real reasons for why we believe what we do.
In reply to:[color:"blue"]You see those little stamps on one dollar bills, with George Washington saying "I grew hemp."
[img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/confused.gif" alt="confused" title="confused[/img] I don't see any such stamp on the one dollar bill . . .
Kyle
I tell you, this man went down to his house justified.
For an example of the rubber stamp I was talking about, see: http://www.cruelty.com/money/. This is the only example I could find quickly, so I don't condone or recommend anything on this site. It just has a picture of what I was talking about.
Caffeine is not bad in itself and neither is sugar.<br>It is when either is taken out of moderation that they become bad. What moderation is, is probably dependant on the individual.<br><br>Tom<br>
Romans 13:1 Let [color:red]every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: [color:red]the powers that be are ordained of God. Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, [color:red]resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: For he is the minister of God to thee for good. [color:red]But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil. Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, [color:red]but also for conscience sake.
The Westminster Confession of Faith, Chapter XXIII Of the Civil Magistrate
I. God, the supreme Lord and King of all the world, hath ordained civil magistrates, to be, under him, over the people, for his own glory, and the public good: and, to this end, hath armed them with the power of the sword, for the defense and encouragement of them that are good, and for the punishment of evildoers.[1]
1. Rom. 13:1-4; I Peter 2:13-14
IV. It is the duty of people to pray for magistrates [10], to honor their persons,[11] to pay them tribute or other dues,[12] to obey their lawful commands, and to be subject to their authority, for conscience' sake.[13] Infidelity, or difference in religion, doth not make void the magistrates' just and legal authority, nor free the people from their due obedience to them :[14] from which ecclesiastical persons are not exempted,[15] much less hath the pope any power and jurisdiction over them in their dominions, or over any of their people; and, least of all, to deprive them of their dominions, or lives, if he shall judge them to be heretics, or upon any other pretense whatsoever.[16]
10. I Tim. 2:1-3 11. I Peter 2:17 12. Matt. 22:21; Rom. 13:6-7 13. Rom. 13:5 Titus 3:1 14. I Peter 2:13-16
15. Rom. 13:1; Acts 25:9-11; II Peter 2:1, 10-11; Jude 1:8-11 16. Mark 10:42-44; Matt. 23:8-12; II Tim. 2:24; I Peter 5:3[/LIST]
In reply to:[color:"blue"]For an example of the rubber stamp I was talking about, see: http://www.cruelty.com/money/. This is the only example I could find quickly, so I don't condone or recommend anything on this site. It just has a picture of what I was talking about.
Yeah, but that doesn't show that George Washington grew hemp, though; and it certainly doesn't show that he smoked it if he did grow it---cannabis fibers were used to make rope.
Kyle
I tell you, this man went down to his house justified.
If an unbeliever told me that I shouldn't drink coffee because I am a Christian. To me that would be an open invitation to ask the person what gives him the idea that a Christian shouldn't drink coffee?<br>If he said the Bible says it, I could then ask him where it says that and perhaps that would be a great way to get him to actually look at Scripture. <br><br>Tom
Joe, Thanks for the considered response. I guess I'll just wait to ask the question again when our nanny state (USA) either (1) reforms, and moves in the direction of placing personal responsibility on the shoulders of persons, or (2) makes tobacco illegal.
