The Highway Forums General Discussion Open Forum Perfectly Reformed?

Wanted to ask if there was such a thing as a perfectly Reformed Church here on Earth, and if so which one would it be? I have been reading in other places where some seem to think there is such a Church and those who are members of it are the only ones here on Earth worshiping God correctly while the rest of us (Reformed Christians, whether Reformed Baptist, Lutheran, Presbyterian, etc,etc) are thought of as idolaters.<br>I know that some Churches are more Reformed then others, but does any Church have the right to claim to be the ONLY Truly Reformed Church? And does such a Church (if in fact it is as Reformed as it claims to be) have the right to denounce other Churches as being in their words, "de-formed"? <br>One person I have known in this denomination even went so far as to tell me that I am committing idolatry every Lord's day because I worship in a Church that sings hymns not Psalms. I can understand their position on Psalmody and do agree in part, but to call those who sing hymns in worship as public idolaters is going way to far in my opinion. Recently a member left that Church to go into Catholicism. The same person just over a year ago had debated that those who do not follow the RPW as his Church does was commiting idolatry. <br>Any how Just wanted to know what any here thought and to see if any others might have a idea concerning those who are perfect in worship that they can denounce others and pass judgement.<br><br><br>Grace<br>

AndalusiaMan,

[color:red]Wanted to ask if there was such a thing as a perfectly Reformed Church-->[color:blue]YES[img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/smile.gif" alt="smile" title="smile[/img]
[color:red]here on Earth-->[color:blue]NO[img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/frown.gif" alt="frown" title="frown[/img]
[color:red]and if so which one would it be?-->[color:blue]The Perfectly Transformed Church Around The Throne Of Grace[img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/wink.gif" alt="wink" title="wink[/img].

Hi Paul,<br><br>Yes and I agree with you. Was just using sarcasm to make a point. I know there are no perfect Churches here on earth, but some seem to think so, even if they would never come right out and say it.<br><br>God bless

AMEN!!!<br><br>Will there be Arminians in Heaven? No, because they will be changed and their eyes will be opened [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/grin.gif" alt="grin" title="grin[/img]<br><br>Of course, there may be some of our own views (nonessentials of course) that will be cleared up when we get to glory.

Boettner wrote in "The Reformed Doctrine of Predestination": <br><br><blockquote> "We are not all Calvinists as we travel this (Highway) to heaven, but we shall all be Calvinists when we get there."</blockquote><br><br>Found this poem out on the internet:<br>The Perfect Church<br><br>If you should find <br>the perfect church <br>without fault or smear, <br>Please, don't join that church, <br>you'd spoil the atmosphere. <br><br>If you should find the perfect church <br>where all anxieties cease, <br>Then pass it by lest joining it <br>you’d mar the masterpiece. <br><br>If you should find the perfect church, <br>then don't you ever dare <br>To tread upon such holy ground <br>you'd be a misfit there. <br><br>But since no perfect church exists... <br>made of imperfect men, <br>Then let's cease looking for that church, <br>and love the one we're in. <br><br>Of course it's not a perfect church, <br>that's simple to discern, <br>But you and I and all of us <br>could cause the tide to turn. <br><br>So let's keep working in our church <br>until the resurrection, <br>And then we each will join God's church <br>without an imperfection. <br><br>Dave<br><br><br><br><br><br>

Good post Dave. [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/clapping.gif" alt="clapping" title="clapping[/img]<br><br>"But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. For it is written: <br><center>"As I live, says the LORD, <br>Every knee shall bow to Me, <br> And every tongue shall confess to God." </center><br>So then each of us shall give account of himself to God. Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather resolve this, not to put a stumbling block or a cause to fall in your brother's way." (Romans 14:10-13)<br><br><br>Wes

When I think about people that think that they go to the only truly Reformed Church and the rest are adulterers, somehow I get the picture of people from a ministry called "Outside the Camp". In case you have not heard of "Outside the Camp", though they hold to TULIP, they have also proclaims great leaders such as Luther, Calvin, Owen, Whitefield, etc... as heretics. They are adding to that list of heretics all the time, pretty soon no one except an elite few will be exempt.<br><br>Tom<br>

Hi AndalusiaMan,<br> <br> We too, have met some people of this persuasion, here in Canada! One of these people told my husband he just wasn't reformed "enough"!!!! Somewhat like a hyper-Calvinist but even more exclusionary! You cannot even talk to these people they are fanatical about certain things and in some ways remind me of the Pharisees!<br><br> As I have always heard, and someone else has said, if you fins a perfect church, don't join it cause you'll ruin it! While you walk away and shake your head say a prayer for them in their ignorance!<br><br>In His Hands,<br><br>Ruth

I think the Outside the Camp folks will be surprised when they get to Heaven, that is, if they themselves are truly born again...

Hey,<br><br>I've seen that place. Even Spurgeon and Pink are on their Heterodoxy Hall of Shame. I wonder if the Apostle Paul will end up there to. LOL<br>I think it would be consider it an honor to end up on there hit list. lol<br>http://www.outsidethecamp.org/heterodoxy.htm

Hey, What do you know? John Calvin himself is even on their list. I guess they and they alone are the only ones going to be saved.<br>Yeah, right! [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/ponder.gif" alt="ponder" title="ponder[/img]

I was thinking about how they'd think of Paul too.<br><br>Oh, but did you know that Paul spoke on the SAME PODIUM in the Acropolis as the PAGAN WORSHIPPING Greeks? That makes Paul a HERETIC! [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/rolleyes.gif" alt="rolleyes" title="rolleyes[/img]<br><br>Hey, and I hear Jesus dined with Pharisees and healed Samaritans and conversed with prostitutes...

"Of course, there may be some of our own views (nonessentials of course) that will be cleared up when we get to glory."<br><br>That's the point I had a hard time understanding. The so called 'Non' essentials. What some may take as being a non-essential, Psalm singing, women's head coverings, they take very seriously. But I also can see their point to and that is what bothers me some times. I look at worship in my Church and some times wish it could be more in line with the RPW and did practice psalmody.<br>But we don't so does that mean we are not true worshipers of God and are sinning against the Most High? What if I'm wrong and they are right, what then? It's so confusing at times. As much as I'm grateful for knowing Reformed theology I still at times miss the earlier days of my Christian life when theology didn't matter much. Jesus was new to me and I just wanted to know I was His.<br><br>

Dear AndalusiaMan,<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"] As much as I'm grateful for knowing Reformed theology I still at times miss the earlier days of my Christian life when theology didn't matter much. Jesus was new to me and I just wanted to know I was His.</font><hr></blockquote><p>The end of theology is to strengthen that blessed assurance, not make it insipid. The Heidelberg Catechism places your desire above all others as the foundation of life:<br><br>[color:green]1. Q. What is your only comfort, in life and in death?<br> A. That I belong, body and soul, in life and in death, not to myself but to my faithful Savior, Jesus Christ...</font color=green><br><br>Although there is no perfect church on earth (btw, I knew in your first post that you were speaking sarcastically!), one mark of a [color:blue]healthy church</font color=blue> is that it will always be strengthening that assurance in its members by constantly displaying Christ, and Him crucified. Although that sort of preaching will, and must, produce application in its members' lives, any church whose identity is rooted in anything other than the person and work of Jesus Christ--ie, worship style--is in real danger of straying from its first love. <br>

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]I think the Outside the Camp folks will be surprised when they get to Heaven, that is, if they themselves are truly born again... </font><hr></blockquote><p> I thought they were going to be Outside the Gates there?...afterall do they really agree with what Jesus says [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/smile.gif" alt="smile" title="smile[/img]