Hello Steve, <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/hello.gif" alt="" />

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But is this the biblical pattern? I don't think so. Ekklesia means 'that which is called out.' Paul writes, 'To the church of God which is in Corinth, to those who are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints' (1Cor 1:2). A little later he says, 'And such were some of you. But you (all of you) were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.' He assumes that everyone in the ekklesia is a born again Christian, and this is the pattern throughout the NT letters. Check it out!

If Paul is assuming that everyone in the ekklesia is a born again Christian why did he write “Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?” (2 Cor 13:5).

Paul used the phrase, “To the church of God which is in Corinth, to those who are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints” and others like it, as a general greeting to the invisible Church within the visible Church (but his letter affected both)–for he himself did not know "everyone" who was saved either, but trusted that some were (like the ones he baptized, et. al)— What else did Paul write to the Corinthians:

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1 Cor 10:1 FOR I do not want you to be unaware, brethren, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea (including children); and all ate the same spiritual food; and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them; and the rock was Christ. Nevertheless, with most of them God was not well-pleased; for they were laid low in the wilderness. Now these things happened as <span style="background-color:#FFFF00">examples for us</span>, that we should not crave evil things, as they also craved. And do not be idolaters, as some of them were; as it is written, “THE PEOPLE SAT DOWN TO EAT AND DRINK, AND STOOD UP TO PLAY.” Nor let us act immorally, as some of them did, and twenty-three thousand fell in one day. Nor let us try the Lord, as some of them did, and were destroyed by the serpents. Nor grumble, as some of them did, and were destroyed by the destroyer. Now these things happened to them as an example, and they were written for our instruction, upon whom the ends of the ages have come. Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall
God, nor Paul thought that EVERY Corinthian baptized Church member was saved! You have a choice here (1) to say there is lost and saved members in "the Church" with no distinction of visible and invisible and thus understand verses like Matt 16:18; Eph 5:27; Heb 12:23, etc. to speak of the saved and unsaved <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/drop.gif" alt="" />, or (2) understand the distinction that is clear in Scripture of the visible/invisible Church.

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Now of course it is true that 'certain men have crept in unnoticed' (Jude 4). Paul knew that 'savage wolves will come in among you' (Acts 20:29), but such people are not part of the ekklesia.
Then what pray tell did they creep into—the bathroom[Linked Image]? They crept into the visible Church. Read the first 3 chapters of Revelation—heretics in the visible Church everywhere. But, note not a single heretic was a member of the invisible Church—which are only the elect.

If you do not keep a proper visible/invisible Church distinction then you will never understand the Scriptures. Church (ekklesia) is used several ways in Scripture--and not just as "the called out ones" (i.e. ekklesia is a generic word depending on "who" is assembling. It can also mean the day of assembly. It is used of Israel several times--of whom we know there were lost/saved: Deut 9:10; 10:4; 18:16; 4:10; Psa 22:22, 26:12, 35, 35:18; 68:26; 107:32; 149:1, in the LXX).

There is one place though your definition of baptism will work. In Heaven baptism could be an outward sign of an inward reality! <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/cloud9.gif" alt="" />

A Critical Review of A String of Pearls Unstrung: A Theological Journey Into Believers' Baptism

Reformed and Always Reforming,