Pilgrim

It's hard playing devil's advocate.

Devil's advocate: Now you seem to be going into the Regulative form of worship vs. the Normative form of worship.
That is a debate that many Calvinists disagree about and I don't want to open a can of worms going there...

It also seems to me that you have missed my point about mentioning "success". If it is just numbers that a Church is after, then you would be correct they "are doomed to failure" when it comes to making disciples. What I meant by that is not necessarily the numbers themselves, but the actual disciples themselves. I believe follow up is very crucial if we want to be successful in making disciples.
However, before that can be done there has to be people who are there to disciple. The seeker model just happens to provide that.

I also want to say I see nothing wrong with the seeker model in and of itself that the Lord abhors. Why? I don't see in the Word of God where it gives specific instruction on how we are to evangelize.
I don't think we are cloaking the Gospel to make it palatable to anyone. By providing an avenue such as a debate on the issues, or music, all they do is get people through the doors. I don't see any "white lies" there.

You are correct however that it is God's revelation that the Holy Spirit works in conjunction with the Word of God that makes true converts. But again, I believe we do that.

Tom: Pilgrim I hope I have accurately represented how someone who espouses the seeker model would answer your objections. It truly is hard doing that from a side that I don't hold to. In fact it is the first time I have tried to do so.

Tom