The Highway Forums General Discussion Theology Discussion Forum Atonement insufficient?

speratus,

Once again, you offered nothing more than contradictory double talk. After reading everything you have posted on this Board, I must assume at this point that you are not one who is able to think logically nor biblically, IMHO. You are certainly entitled to your views, but some of them certainly don't harmonize with God's Word. Whether it is even prudent to reply to your answers I am not sure. But I'll briefly comment on the most important ones which display serious error, both in logic and in their contradiction of Scripture.

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Pilgrim wrote:
As to the "sufficiency" of the atonement, we must distinguish between the inherent sufficiency (quality) of it, in that IF it had been designed to atone for all men, then it would have.

Why do you believe that it didn't ? Men are in hell, not because their sins were not atoned for, but because the atonement of Christ has not been imputed to them.

I believe it didn't because Scripture states specifically that Christ came for His sheep; that He came to save His people from their sins; that He gave His life for all those whom the Father gave Him; etc... Secondly, the atonement was offered as a sacrifice to satisfy that which was owed God, which I clearly laid out in the biblical terms used in regard to the atonement:

- Sacrifice
- Propitiation
- Reconciliation
- Redemption (ransom)

Since these four areas which were in need of fulfillment were indeed accomplished by the Lord Christ, then God was and is 100% satisfied. Further, since the death of Christ was vicarious and substitutionary then those for whom He gave Himself cannot be liable to judgment, since their judgment was laid upon Christ. There simply is no legal grounds for God to condemn anyone for whom Christ died. Henry brought this issue to your attention as well.

Men are in hell because, 1) they are sinners by nature, having inherited the guilt of Adam's transgression (Original Sin), and 2) they have personally committed sins against God. It is inconceivable that had Christ atoned (been punished) for those who are in hell and all who will be cast into hell, that God could legally condemn them, since their sins would have been atoned for. If the debt is paid, it is paid. The debtor is released from the bond once owed. To believe that God would punish someone for whom everything has been legally satisfied is both insulting to Christ, and to introduce contradiction within the Godhead, and to God's character; making Him guilty of injustice.

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Pilgrim wrote:
Therefore it is limited only in its efficiency; to secure the redemption of the elect. Otherwise, it would be limited in its sufficiency; i.e., it would not have accomplished redemption but rather it would have only made redemption possible . . . when something else was added to it.

Something else is added. The Holy Spirit works faith in the elect. But that does not mean that the atonement is not perfect and sufficient for all.

So, Christ's atonement was totally sufficient, but it is also insufficient because faith is needed to make it sufficient? Did it ever occur to you that EVERYTHING that is needed for a sinner to be saved is found in Christ Jesus and in His vicarious substitutionary atonement? I say EVERYTHING necessary for a sinner to be saved was secured by the Lord Christ; regeneration, repentance, faith, justification, sanctification and glorification. Thus there is nothing that can prevent any for whom Christ died from being saved.... NOTHING! For once again, His death secured redemption for those whom the Father gave Him, who had been predestinated from eternity by God's immutable decree. The three persons of the Godhead are in perfect agreement and harmony in all things. And, it is no less true in regard to salvation. The Father elects/predestinates specific individuals to salvation; the Son atones for those whom the Father has elected/predestinated; and the Holy Spirit applies the merits of the Son's atonement to those whom the Father has elected/predestinated, that being calling, regenerating, sanctifying, preserving and glorifying them.

Faith does not save. For it is by grace that ye are saved through faith; i.e., faith is only the means by which a sinner apprehends that which actually saves; the person and work of the Lord Jesus Christ and Him alone. Thus "Solus Christus"......... not Christ + faith, aka: semi-Pelagian/Arminian . . . synergism!

In His Grace,