Robin
Lake Park, Georgia USA
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Joe, I read through that sermon by the PRC minister and he makes the same error; i.e., he negates the temporal and actual justification of a believing sinner in time by claiming that the justification occurred in eternity. And how does he make that error? He says this: Just a few things about that wonderful work of justification. In the first place, we teach (and we are firmly convinced that this is Scriptural) that there is eternal justification. You will find that many who teach the "free offer of the gospel," deny eternal justification. Eternal justification again takes us back into the eternal Council or purpose of God. When the Bible says that we are "chosen in Him (Christ) before the foundation of the world," there is the element of eternal justification. We are chosen IN CHRIST. This means that we are chosen in connection with the cross. We are chosen in connection with sin and grace--eternally!
Here he clearly commits "eisogesis", i.e., he has read INTO the text that which is not there; referring to Rom 8:29, 30. Although it is true that God's decree includes justification, it doesn't mean that ALL that He decreed was accomplished. In the case of justification, the redemption intended was not existent in eternity but rather only after Christ's crucifixion and resurrection. If it was complete in eternity, then there would have been no purpose in God becoming man and suffering a vicarious substitutionary atonement, for it would ALREADY have been a "done deal". He further says: But as here justification follows out of the "calling," the emphasis in the text is on the conscious experience of the child of God. When God calls, draws, by the power of His Holy Spirit, He also assures us in our minds and in our hearts that we are justified. The child of God who is on his knees, who cries with the publican, "Oh, God, be merciful to me the sinner," that child of God has flowing into his consciousness the assurance that Jesus died for him.
This type of thinking is very similar to that of Karl Barth's idea of election, who embraced neo-Orthodoxy, where he taught that although election is universal, it is the "elect-elect" who come to realize their election in time; i.e., salvation for them was an experience. The similarity here is that the PRC, after the teaching of Abraham Kuyper and a few others, teach that justification is universal (for the elect) and that in time, the elect come to "experience" their eternal justification and not a real and individual justification. Once can easily see the fallacy here from myriad texts which contradict this type of thinking. For example, we have these two examples: Ephesians 2:3 "among whom we also all once lived in the lust of our flesh, doing the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest:--"
2 Corinthians 5:20 "Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech [you] by us: we pray [you] in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
If the elect were justified in eternity, then they could not be said to be "children of wrath" even as the reprobate were under the wrath of God. And, if the elect were justified in eternity, why would Paul urge them to be "reconciled to God"? To be reconciled, one must first be justified, i.e., be declared righteous. For God cannot be united to that which is evil or wicked. (Hab 1:13). Perhaps even more convincing is the text itself from which he took his sermon: Romans 8:30 "and whom he foreordained, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified."
He spoke about God's "calling", which he specifically said was temporal, i.e., it consisted of two elements; regeneration and the outward and effectual call. This "call" is temporal and surely not eternal; that which was decreed doesn't occur until the appointed time when the Spirit comes upon the elect sinner. Skipping over "them he also justified", we read that "and whom he justified, them he also glorified." Again, this glorification, although decreed in eternity doesn't take place until the consummation of all things, when the Lord Christ returns to gather together all His own. Now, returning to "them he also justified", this justification in the text is specifically marked out as being inextricably bound to these other two elements: calling and glorification. One first needs to be called in time in order to be justified. And it is only those who are justified in time, who are then later glorified, in time. It is grammatical and linguistic suicide to posit that the calling is temporal, the justification eternal and the glorification temporal.  Now, I took the time to read the sermon you suggested. Will you extend the same to me and read the article by Berkhof I referred you to previously, which can be found here: Eternal Justification and provide your comments and/or objections?  In His Grace,
simul iustus et peccator
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Entire Thread
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Eternal Justification
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Pilgrim
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Sun Mar 06, 2005 6:59 PM
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Re: Eternal Justification
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Pilgrim
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Sun Mar 06, 2005 9:15 PM
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Re: Eternal Justification
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William
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Mon Mar 07, 2005 10:51 AM
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Re: Eternal Justification
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Pilgrim
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Mon Mar 07, 2005 3:32 PM
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Re: Eternal Justification
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William
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Tue Mar 08, 2005 1:49 AM
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Re: Eternal Justification
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Pilgrim
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Tue Mar 08, 2005 4:43 AM
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Re: Eternal Justification
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Joe k
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Tue Mar 08, 2005 3:51 PM
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Re: Eternal Justification
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Pilgrim
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Tue Mar 08, 2005 6:12 PM
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Re: Eternal Justification
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Joe k
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Tue Mar 08, 2005 6:32 PM
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Re: Eternal Justification
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Pilgrim
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Tue Mar 08, 2005 7:11 PM
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Re: Eternal Justification
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Joe k
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Tue Mar 08, 2005 7:18 PM
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Re: Eternal Justification
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Pilgrim
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Tue Mar 08, 2005 7:26 PM
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Re: Eternal Justification
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Joe k
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Tue Mar 08, 2005 7:35 PM
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Re: Eternal Justification
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J_Edwards
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Tue Mar 08, 2005 7:28 PM
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Re: Eternal Justification
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Joe k
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Tue Mar 08, 2005 7:38 PM
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Re: Eternal Justification
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J_Edwards
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Tue Mar 08, 2005 8:14 PM
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Re: Eternal Justification
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Joe k
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Tue Mar 08, 2005 8:28 PM
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Re: Eternal Justification
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J_Edwards
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Tue Mar 08, 2005 10:53 PM
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Re: Eternal Justification
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Ruth
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Wed Mar 09, 2005 4:11 AM
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Re: Eternal Justification
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Anonymous
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Mon Mar 14, 2005 2:41 AM
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Re: Eternal Justification
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DaveVan3
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Tue Mar 08, 2005 6:36 PM
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Re: Eternal Justification
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J_Edwards
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Tue Mar 08, 2005 6:43 PM
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Re: Eternal Justification
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Joe k
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Tue Mar 08, 2005 7:15 PM
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Re: Eternal Justification
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Joe k
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Tue Mar 08, 2005 7:20 PM
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Re: Eternal Justification
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Joe k
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Tue Mar 08, 2005 7:23 PM
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Joe k
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Tue Mar 08, 2005 7:31 PM
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Re: Eternal Justification
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Pilgrim
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Tue Mar 08, 2005 7:40 PM
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Re: Eternal Justification
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Joe k
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Tue Mar 08, 2005 7:54 PM
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Re: Eternal Justification
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DaveVan3
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Wed Mar 09, 2005 1:27 AM
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Re: Eternal Justification
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Joe k
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Wed Mar 09, 2005 11:06 AM
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Re: Eternal Justification
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J_Edwards
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Wed Mar 09, 2005 12:12 PM
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Re: Eternal Justification
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Joe k
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Wed Mar 09, 2005 1:23 PM
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Re: Eternal Justification
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Ruth
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Wed Mar 09, 2005 4:24 PM
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Re: Eternal Justification
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Joe k
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Wed Mar 09, 2005 4:35 PM
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Re: Eternal Justification
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Pilgrim
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Wed Mar 09, 2005 2:36 PM
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Re: Eternal Justification
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Joe k
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Wed Mar 09, 2005 3:07 PM
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Re: Eternal Justification
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William
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Wed Mar 09, 2005 12:33 AM
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Re: Eternal Justification
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Pilgrim
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Wed Mar 09, 2005 1:28 AM
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Tom
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Wed Mar 09, 2005 10:24 PM
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Re: Eternal Justification
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Joe k
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Thu Mar 10, 2005 4:56 PM
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Re: Eternal Justification
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Ruth
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Thu Mar 10, 2005 6:08 PM
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Re: Eternal Justification
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Joe k
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Thu Mar 10, 2005 6:18 PM
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Re: Eternal Justification
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Joe k
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Thu Mar 10, 2005 6:37 PM
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Re: Eternal Justification
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Pilgrim
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Thu Mar 10, 2005 7:13 PM
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Re: Eternal Justification
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Joe k
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Thu Mar 10, 2005 7:31 PM
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Re: Eternal Justification
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J_Edwards
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Thu Mar 10, 2005 10:31 PM
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Re: Eternal Justification
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Pilgrim
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Thu Mar 10, 2005 10:34 PM
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Re: Eternal Justification
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Joe k
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Fri Mar 11, 2005 12:54 AM
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Re: Eternal Justification
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CovenantInBlood
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Thu Mar 10, 2005 10:47 PM
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Re: Eternal Justification
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Joe k
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Fri Mar 11, 2005 12:44 AM
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Re: Eternal Justification
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CovenantInBlood
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Fri Mar 11, 2005 5:41 AM
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DaveVan3
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Thu Mar 10, 2005 11:49 PM
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Re: Eternal Justification
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Joe k
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Fri Mar 11, 2005 12:39 AM
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Re: Eternal Justification
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Pilgrim
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Fri Mar 11, 2005 3:02 AM
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Re: Eternal Justification
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William
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Sat Mar 12, 2005 10:59 PM
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Re: Eternal Justification
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J_Edwards
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Sat Mar 12, 2005 11:22 PM
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Re: Eternal Justification
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William
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Sun Mar 13, 2005 12:16 AM
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Re: Eternal Justification
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J_Edwards
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Sun Mar 13, 2005 12:22 AM
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Re: Eternal Justification
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Pilgrim
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Sun Mar 13, 2005 6:06 AM
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Re: Eternal Justification
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Peter
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Tue Mar 15, 2005 1:05 AM
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Re: Eternal Justification
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Joe k
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Tue Mar 08, 2005 2:24 AM
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Re: Eternal Justification
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Pilgrim
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Tue Mar 08, 2005 4:41 AM
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