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J_Edwards said:
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li0scc0 said:
Shouldn't the pastors be leading this group? And if the Pastors are inadequate teachers then they are inadequate preachers. And if the Pastors are inadequate as teachers and preachers it is because they are not teaching the Word. And if that is that case....
Not necessarily. Why do we constantly put ALL the pressure for teaching on the pastor? He is not the only one called with the gift of teaching. Any person who is properly trained could lead a group teaching doctrine ... If a pastor is doing his job correctly he will have chosen men from the congregation in which he invests his time, efforts, etc. (this in not to say he is not ministering to the rest of the congregation, et. al.). In a sense the pastor re-duplicates himself (teaching wise) in these men and thus they "should" be equipped to do the job(s). If the ONLY true teacher in your church is the pastor, the pastor has not done his job correctly ...

I'm sorry Joe, but you seem to be contradicting yourself here just a little.

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You state: Not necessarily. Why do we constantly put ALL the pressure for teaching on the pastor?

But then you go on to say: Any person who is properly trained could lead a group teaching doctrine ... If a pastor is doing his job correctly he will have chosen men from the congregation in which he invests his time, efforts, etc...

Then you wrap it up: In a sense the pastor re-duplicates himself (teaching wise) in these men and thus they "should" be equipped to do the job(s). If the ONLY true teacher in your church is the pastor, the pastor has not done his job correctly ...

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I stated this in my last post: Everything going on in the church should be under the supervision of the pastor or pastors. There should also be sound preaching and teaching coming from the pulpit. There should be no excuse for anyone not maturing in a church period! Period! If the body isn’t growing in some way then it’s the pastors fault, no if ands or butts about it. I was in the Navy and I still have the Navy’s mentality to where everything that happened on a ship was ultimately the Skippers responsibility. No matter what went wrong, it was ultimately the Captain’s responsibility to see to it that his men were properly trained and capable to handle any situation that could arise. I also believe that hold’s true for the home as well. I believe it’s the husbands/fathers duty to be the head of the household and ultimately responsible for the growth and actions of his wife and children. If there isn’t any growth/maturation going on in the home it’s his fault. This holds true for the local assembly as well. I don’t buy all the bull about how busy the pastor is and how many people are in a particular church and how hard it is for the pastor to be responsible for so many people. Sorry, excuses are like noses, everybody has one. It’s the pastor’s responsibility to Shepard his flock and to lead and guide them. That’s his job, that is his calling. If it’s not being done, it’s his fault.

I still firmly believe that. If it happens to be a case where the pastor has his hands tied behind his back because the rest of the congregation encluding the church leaders don't agree with him, then it would be a situation where the pastor might have to consider moving.

But in most cases, the pastor has and in my opinion should have a lot of authority in the church. So his leading, teaching, preaching, praying and directing should, as Joe has stated above, move the church leaders in the right direction. But ultimately it's the pastor's responsibility to make sure that other church leaders are trained properly.

I do agree however that the pastor shouldn't be the only one teaching or involved in every event or class. This is impossible and that is why he needs to be sure that there are leaders trained to do this ministry by exercising these types of gifts and talents.

To answer Jeff's question earlier, If there is a situation where a classes attendance drops off, then I believe it could be a couple of different reasons.

1. The class might just be very dry and strictly doctrinal and over everyone's head. This could be a real possibility. That is why it is important to constantly try to gauge where the majority of your congregation is at and at what level you should teach at. But more then that, adult education is not easy. It requires work and good teaching skills. But, with saying that, I believe that there are many good resources available now that makes the job of holding a good adult Sunday school class easier. Heck, you could use Sprouls stuff for years.

2. Or another reason, and the reason I believe we are looking at here, is that the congregation are not hearing the gospel preached to them with conviction on Sunday. Thus, they are not in a position to allow the Spirit of God to work in their hearts and they are not born again. They do not want to repent of their sins and they do not want to walk with God obediently to please Him and give Him glory. They do not want to fight indwellilng sin in there lives and they do not want walk further towards the light of truth. I'm sorry, but this is my assessment of any church who doesn't have the majority of it's congregation wanting to grow spiritually.

I attended a PCUSA church who had a woman pastor who was the head of the adult education. She was very neo-orthodox, she was single, a femanist and very liberal. I was continually amazed at the foolish material the adult education committee would choose for adult education. I was also very disappointed at the very few members who would be faithful attendees. Well anyway, I won't get into it, but it is a sad situation in that church.

In my opinion, adult education is just as important then worship and preaching. There is so much to learn about our faith that it requires a lot of effort on our part to further our growth. Sound teaching on doctrine and theology are essential for us to renew our minds and allow us to stand firm in our faith and to grow in our love for God's Word.

Soli Deo Gloria,

Dave.

Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. - Galatians 2:16