The Highway Forums General Discussion Open Forum Tolerant Calvinism

I totally agree. Unfortunately, there are some who seem to think that those who espouse the view I hold along with countless others throughout history this is necessary.

You were doing so well until you wrote the following:

First, I'll ask a question to make sure that I am understanding you correctly. Do you believe that a sinner is saved without the Gospel? This appears to be your position ala: "Salvation is from God and in the [i]heart long before it reaches the mind.[/i]"

Okay, I will now respond to what you wrote whether the answer to the above question is yes or not since it is more than probable that others have this view as well. This is totally contrary to Scripture which teaches that faith comes by HEARING and hearing by the Word of God;preached, taught and/or read (Rom 1:16, 10:8-17; 1Cor 1:18-24; Col 1:4-6; 1Thess 2:13; 2Thess 2:13,14; Jam 1:18-21; 1Pet 1:23-25). There is no one in Scripture that I have been able to find where a sinner is saved apart from Scripture being heard. Now, there are some who believe that Jeremiah and/or John the Baptist are two exceptions proposing that they were saved in the womb. However, the proof for that is quite weak at best. In regeneration, that sovereign and secret work of the Holy Spirit, the WHOLE man is renewed; intellect, affections/emotions, and will. Secondly, in every instance given in Scripture in regard to sinners being saved, it is via the Holy Spirit attending the preaching/teaching and/or reading of God's. The natural order in which the TRUTH of God in the Gospel travels is 1) Mind, 2) Affections, 3) Will. God doesn't bypass the intellect when He calls a sinner to salvation in Christ. In regeneration, the sinner is giving the ability to comprehend the things of God vs. his natural state which finds the truth of God foolishness and exchanges the truth for a lie. Secondly, these necessary truths of the Gospel effect the affections/emotion, for when comprehends the truth about one's true nature, that it is vile, corrupt, wicked, self-absorbed, and that every thought and imagination of the heart is evil continually, conviction of sin occurs. At the same moment, the comprehension of God's ineffable holiness brings humility of self and awe and reverence of God with an insatiable desire to worship HIm and obey all that He commands. Lastly, the will is effected, which should be obvious since the will, the ability to do something, does that which the intellect and/or affections demand. This all occurs in an instant but NOT apart from[i] the Word but [i]in conjunction with the Word.

Not one person who disagrees with my view that sinners are not and cannot be saved by believing a false gospel, a god of their imagination, another Jesus or another Spirit has offered a single response to even one thing I have written to support that view from Scripture nor logic nor reason. All that has been done in to repeat their view that those who embrace Arminianism, semi-Pelagianism (which would of course include Roman Catholics), or any other sect are saved. Now, there is yet another element to what I and history Reformed Theology deem to be heresy is the element that the intellect/mind is unnecessary for salvation, for God the Spirit works directly with a sinner's heart. So, again, can anyone provide any biblical support for this view if that is what you believe? Can anyone provide any biblical support to show that a sinner is saved by believing a false gospel, another Jesus, another Spirit and/or a false God? Can anyone show from Scripture that God has called His elect to faith through a lie?

I repeat..... No one is saved because they believe right doctrine, but no one is saved without right doctrine. It is the TRUTH that sets a sinner free. And that truth is not to be found in a false gospel nor in a 10 second sound byte.