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Paul_S #1010 Fri Aug 30, 2002 9:15 PM
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Paul,

I don't really like to give this stuff much airtime, but I did bring it up, and you did ask, so here is some of what I was talking about. It's kinda long, but you won't get the full effect of how painfully morbid it is if you don't read the whole quote.

[color:red]You that have godly parents, who in this world have tenderly loved you, who were wont to look upon your welfare as their own, and were wont to be grieved for you when any thing calamitous befell you in this world, and especially were greatly concerned for the good of your souls, industriously sought, and earnestly prayed for their salvation; how will you bear to see them in the kingdom of God, crowned with glory?
Or how will you bear to see them receiving the blessed sentence, and going up with shouts and songs, to enter with Christ into the kingdom prepared for them from the foundation of the world, while you are amongst a company of devils, and are turned away with the most bitter cries, to enter into everlasting burnings, prepared for the devil and big angels? How will you bear to see your parents, who in this life had so dear an affection for you, now without any love to you, approving the sentence of condemnation, when Christ shall with indignation bid you depart, wretched, cursed creatures, into eternal burnings? how will you bear to see and hear them praising the Judge, for his justice exercised in pronouncing this sentence, and hearing it with holy joy in their countenances, and shouting forth the praises and hallelujahs of God and Christ on that account?

When they shall see what manifestations of amazement there will be in you, at the hearing of this dreadful sentence, and that every syllable of it pierces you like a thunderbolt, and sinks you into the lowest depths of horror and despair; when they shall behold you with a frighted, amazed countenance, trembling and astonished, and shall hear you groan and gnash your teeth; these things will not move them at all to pity you, but you will see them with a holy joyfulness in their countenances, and with songs in their mouths. When they shall see you turned away and beginning to enter into the great furnace, arid shall see how you shrink at it, and hear how you shriek and cry out; yet they will not be at all grieved for you, but at the same time you will hear from them renewed praises and hallelujahs for the true and righteous judgments of God, in so dealing with you.

I think that calling that "morbid junk" is being tactful. ISTM that Mr. Edwards took quite a lot of literary license in that sermon, and while he was no doubt hoping to scare some kids out of hell, he probably caused some parents who were already bound for heaven to dread it. I think his conclusions are his own, and there is lots there that I just don't see in the Bible. If you think this was taken "out of context" and have the stomach for it, you can go here and read the rest....at your own risk! [Linked Image]

http://www.the-highway.com/Edwards_wicked.html

RefBap

carlos #1011 Sat Aug 31, 2002 9:55 PM
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The older I get, the more I appreciate simple truth. These 3 questions from the Westminster Catechism for Young Children help me keep it simple:

Q.69 [color:blue]Why do you need Christ as a prophet?
Ans. [color:red]Because I am ignorant.

Q.70 [color:blue]Why do you need Christ as a priest?
Ans. [color:red]Because I am guilty.

Q.71 [color:blue]Why do you need Christ as a king?
Ans. [color:red]Because I am weak and helpless.

That about sums it up, doesn't it?


In Christ,
Paul S
#1012 Sun Sep 01, 2002 1:17 AM
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RefBap,

I have taken the entire section of Edwards' sermon which you posted, and interspersed Biblical references to every section:

In reply to:
You that have godly parents, who in this world have tenderly loved you, who were wont to look upon your welfare as their own, and were wont to be grieved for you when any thing calamitous befell you in this world, and especially were greatly concerned for the good of your souls, industriously sought, and earnestly prayed for their salvation;[/color]

Fathers, do not exasperate your children; instead, bring them up in the training and instruction of the Lord. (Ephesians 6:4)

In reply to:
how will you bear to see them in the kingdom of God, crowned with glory?
Or how will you bear to see them receiving the blessed sentence, and going up with shouts and songs, to enter with Christ into the kingdom prepared for them from the foundation of the world,

"Then the King will say to those on His right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world.'"(Matthew 25:34)

In reply to:
while you are amongst a company of devils, and are turned away with the most bitter cries, to enter into everlasting burnings, prepared for the devil and his angels?

"Then He will say to those on His left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.'"

In reply to:
How will you bear to see your parents, who in this life had so dear an affection for you, now without any love to you, approving the sentence of condemnation, when Christ shall with indignation bid you depart, wretched, cursed creatures, into eternal burnings?[/color]

"Anyone who loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me;" (Matthew 10:37)

They called out in a loud voice, "How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until You judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?" (Revelation 6:11)

The One enthroned in heaven laughs; the Lord scoffs at them. Then He rebukes them in His anger and terrifies them in His wrath, saying, "I have installed My King on Zion, My holy hill." (Psalm 2:4-6)

In reply to:
how will you bear to see and hear them praising the Judge, for his justice exercised in pronouncing this sentence, and hearing it with holy joy in their countenances, and shouting forth the praises and hallelujahs of God and Christ on that account?

After this I heard what sounded like the roar of a great multitude in heaven shouting: "Hallelujah! Salvation and glory and power belong to our God, for true and just are His judgments. He has condemned the great prostitute who corrupted the earth by her adulteries. He has avenged on her the blood of His servants." And again they shouted: "Hallelujah! The smoke from her goes up for ever and ever." (Revelation 19:1-3)

In reply to:
When they shall see what manifestations of amazement there will be in you, at the hearing of this dreadful sentence, and that every syllable of it pierces you like a thunderbolt, and sinks you into the lowest depths of horror and despair; when they shall behold you with a frighted, amazed countenance, trembling and astonished, and shall hear you groan and gnash your teeth;

Surely you place them on slippery ground; you cast them down to ruin. How suddenly they are destroyed, completely swept away by terrors! (Psalm 73:18-19)

'And throw that worthless servant outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.' (Matthew 25:30)

Then the kings of the earth, the princes, the generals, the rich, the mighty, and every slave and every free man hid in caves and among the rocks of the mountains. They called to the mountains and the rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?" (Revelation 6:15-17)

In reply to:
these things will not move them at all to pity you, but you will see them with a holy joyfulness in their countenances, and with songs in their mouths.

"Therefore rejoice, you heavens and you who dwell in them! But woe to the earth and the sea, because the devil has gone down to you!" (Revelation 12:12)

In reply to:
When they shall see you turned away and beginning to enter into the great furnace, arid shall see how you shrink at it, and hear how you shriek and cry out; yet they will not be at all grieved for you, but at the same time you will hear from them renewed praises and hallelujahs for the true and righteous judgments of God, in so dealing with you.

"I am in agony in this fire." (Luke 16:24)

...if the message spoken by angels was binding, and every violation and disobedience received its just punishment, how shall we escape if we ignore such a great salvation? (Hebrews 2:2)

"You are just in these judgments, You who are and who were, the Holy One, because You have so judged; for they have drunk the blood of your saints and prophets, and You have given them blood to drink as they deserve." (Revelation 16:5-6)

Then I heard what sounded like a great multitude, like the roar of rushing waters and like loud peals of thunder, shouting: "Hallelujah! For our Lord God Almighty reigns. Let us rejoice and be glad and give Him glory! (Revelation 19:6-7)

The entire passage was soundly buttressed with Scriptural truth and heavily ornamented with Scriptural language, and was preached to people who had heard Edwards faithfully preach the entire counsel of God concerning Christ and Him crucified, and your response is:

I think that calling that "morbid junk" is being tactful.

Astonishing!

Is it possible you are having less difficulty with Mr. Edwards than with the Holy Scripture itself?



In Christ,
Paul S
Paul_S #1013 Thu Sep 05, 2002 12:14 AM
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Paul,<br><br>Most of the Edwards' quote I posted was for context, so I don't think it's all beyond Scripture. However, I do think the most morbid part was, and I don't think the verses you gave prove otherwise. <br><br>You might like to check out Ezekiel 33:11. And no, I don't think that Jonathan Edwards' words equal Scripture.<br><br>RefBap

carlos #1014 Fri Sep 06, 2002 2:48 PM
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“Lord Jesus, you are my righteousness, I am your sin.
You have taken upon Yourself what is mine and given me what is yours.
You have become what you were not so that I might become what I am not.”
MARTIN LUTHER

“God is most glorified in us when we are most satisfied in Him…”
JOHN PIPER, Future Grace

“The important thing is to stop lying to yourself. A man who lies to himself, and believes his own lies, becomes unable to recognize truth, either in himself or in anyone else, and he ends up losing respect for himself as well as for others. When he has no respect for anyone, he can no longer love and, in order to divert himself, having no love in him he yields to his impulses, indulges in the lowest forms of pleasure, and behaves in the end like an animal, in satisfying his vices. And it all comes from lying - lying to others and to yourself.”
FYDOR DOSTOEVESKY, The Brothers Karamazov

“Common sense is not so common.” – Voltaire

“I believe our homes are to be a visible reflection of our Lord and Creator, in whose image we are made, and are to draw first of all our families and then a lost and dying world to Christ. Beauty is a very powerful drawing card for people. Who chooses to be in an ugly and dark place when they can be in a light and beautiful place? When I read Scripture it seems to me that heaven will be very beautiful with no effort spared to make it so. Am I not to do the same with my home on earth?”
Edith Schaeffer, The Hidden Art of Homemaking
(I think this is my favorite book apart from God’s Holy Word)


[Linked Image]Shy - Sue

carlos #1015 Fri Sep 06, 2002 5:04 PM
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"Let not any conversion astonish you; be astonished, rather, that anyone should possibly remain unconverted."<br>Martyn Lloyd-Jones<br>


Trust the past to God's mercy, the present to God's love and the future to God's providence." - St. Augustine
Hiraeth
gotribe #1016 Fri Sep 06, 2002 10:11 PM
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gotribe


the quote by adams: "Read to learn, learn to practice, practice to live, and live to Praise God forever!—Thomas Adams"
is definitely a keeper.

Carlos


"Let all that mind...the peace and comfort of their own souls, wholly apply themselves to the study of Jesus Christ, and him crucified"(Flavel)
gotribe #1017 Wed Sep 11, 2002 4:24 PM
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How 'bout: carpe cervesisi i.e., seize the beer!![Linked Image] <br><br>I probably didn't spell the Latin correctly (check with Pilgrim for that).<br>Blessings,<br>LEJ

#1018 Wed Sep 11, 2002 10:47 PM
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Well if you want to be polite (and if its the last dark beer in the house I say every man for himself) you would say [color:blue]Cervisiam, sodes</font color=blue> or [color:green]Unu bieron, mi petas</font color=green> in esperanto (you guys knew I had to get that in didn't you?). So Seize the Beer would probably be Carpe Cervisiam. But Latin isn't my language of choice.<br>

#1019 Fri Sep 13, 2002 1:10 PM
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Then, <font face="Brush Script MT">Carpe Cervisiam</font> it is!![Linked Image]

carlos #1020 Mon Sep 16, 2002 11:11 AM
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I read one yesterday that I really like. It was in Brother Andrew's book The Calling. He did not give the original source.<br><br><span style="background-color:yellow;">Man must be either challenged or he must be entertained.</span><br><br>Right on the mark. Unfortunately we have settled for entertainment all too often.

#1021 Mon Sep 16, 2002 7:42 PM
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In reference to your terse comments, you will no doubt appreciate these two little quips from Charles Spurgeon:

No Compromise

Feeding Sheep or Amusing Goats

In His Grace,


[Linked Image]

simul iustus et peccator

[Linked Image]
carlos #1022 Mon Sep 16, 2002 10:42 PM
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"The various elements of truth stand in perpetual antithesis, some times requiring that we believe apparent opposites until that day when we shall see as we are seen, then we will discover that the contradictions were not in truth, but in our own sin damaged minds." <br> A. W.Tozer<br><br>I'm quoting from memory, but believe that is accurate.


gil
carlos #1023 Tue Sep 17, 2002 3:09 AM
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Fabulous thread!! I haven't time to read it through completely right now, but I'll be back to do so -- it's just about pure gold! [Linked Image] Thanks Carlos for starting it, and thanks to all you contributors; I hope to contribute something myself withing the next 24 hours. God bless! <br><br>in Christ,<br>Gilda

Pilgrim #1024 Tue Sep 17, 2002 10:38 AM
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I love them, Pilgrim. This is becoming a real battle that will certainly get worse before it gets better. <br><br>There is a great, godly woman in our congregation who points out that we are to work out or salvation with fear and trembling. However, it seems that everything we do involves laughing and joking. She went on to describe a well-known Spanish-language preacher in our area as "Espuma y nada mas. (Just foam/lather and nothing more)". For those of you not familiar with Latin-American literature, that quote is taken from the title of a well-known short story by Columbian writer Hernando Téllez.<br><br>

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