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#21284 Tue Jan 25, 2005 6:08 PM
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Shoud we be weary of Zondervan.

I read where the Rolling Stone has decided, after first refusing, to run an ad for the TNIV Bible. Zondervan is promoting it as the Bible for the young.


John Chaney

"having been firmly rooted and now being built up in Him and established in your faith . . ." Colossians 2:7
John_C #21285 Tue Jan 25, 2005 7:38 PM
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John_C said:
Shoud we be weary of Zondervan.
John,

I'm not clear on what you mean by being "weary"? Did you intend to write, "leery", perchance? Are you asking if Zondervan is a publishing house which people can have confidence in that they publish conservative and biblically solid materials?

In His Grace,


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Pilgrim #21286 Tue Jan 25, 2005 8:07 PM
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Yes, I meant leery.

And, can we trust Zondervan. The TNIV Bible with its gender-neutral bent is not a trustworthy translation. I'm trying to remember when the controversy arose. Did Zondervan agreed not to publish the Bible when they pulled it, or what was the agreement?

Last edited by John_C; Tue Jan 25, 2005 8:16 PM.

John Chaney

"having been firmly rooted and now being built up in Him and established in your faith . . ." Colossians 2:7
John_C #21287 Tue Jan 25, 2005 9:15 PM
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I read the article in World back when is happened. Basically, Zondervan had plans to do the Bible. The Evangelical community caught on, there was a big uproar, and they eventually had a summit where Zondervan pledged (I think in writing) not to publish a gener-neutral Bible. But then they went on ahead in secret, eventually kind of popping the new translation on the market with little warning.

I'm not sure if World magazine has their archives online, but the article was called the Stealth Bible.

Beyond this, I would say that Zondervan's credibility as a "Christian" company is suspect from the get-go by the fact that they are a division of a for-profit secular company (HarperCollins).

Last edited by Henry; Tue Jan 25, 2005 9:15 PM.

(Latin phrase goes here.)
Henry #21288 Wed Jan 26, 2005 11:13 AM
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Isn't this a case of trying to serve two masters? I pity poor the Zondervan executive who is torn between his duty to God to provide honest translation and his duty to stockholders to maximize sales to itching ears. The solution to this dilemma is for bible merchandising companies to get out of the business of sponsoring bible translations and return translation to individuals and churches who serve only God. And, of course, the only way this will happen is if Christians refuse to purchase bibles with commercial copyrights.

John_C #21289 Wed Jan 26, 2005 1:55 PM
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Zondervan carries a lot of Willow Creek, Hybels, and LaHaye, and yes, the TNIV, etc. resources. However, they also carry some C.S. Lewis tapes, William D. Mounce and Daniel B. Wallace Greek books, D.A. Carson, Moisés Silva and some other notable authors. Thus, maybe a good name for them is Truth and Consequences (that is the consequences of carrying bad material). Unfortunately, very few publishers carry ALL good material.


Reformed and Always Reforming,
J_Edwards #21290 Wed Jan 26, 2005 7:22 PM
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I work at a Christian bookstore now and Zondervan is by far the leading seller in bibles at my store. Out of all the translations as you can guess, the NIV is the biggest seller. The NIV study and Life Application bibles are the most popular. But they also carry other translations of course.

There is also the Bible dictionary's and concordances. They also provide good children's bibles and books. I don't know anything about the company but the one thing I can say is that there are allot of other Christian title publishers that print less edifying material. There is allot of trash that we sell at the store I work in. It's funny because most of the stuff people bring to the counter I don't approve of, but it's not for me to judge. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I do however think that the NIV New Reformation Study Bible is a good bible. But I'm finding that I'm starting to prefer my NKJV Reformation Study bible the most.

Y.B.I.C,

Dave.


Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. - Galatians 2:16
#21291 Wed Jan 26, 2005 11:08 PM
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I'm usually not one to weigh in on an argument on Zondervan, but in when it comes to profitability I must point out that they are not alone.

One of our local Bible and Christian book publishers is a for profit company. So for all of you Thompson Chain, Nelson Study, and McArthur Study Bible readers Thomas Nelson is listed on the NYSE and are part of the S&P Small Cap 600.

Certainly individuals make income in professional ministry. Pastors, church staff, counselors, et. al. All of the folks who write the books ultimately do it to make money. Is there a difference? What does the Bible say about making money? I know there are statements such as serving two masters and the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil, but what is truly out there with regards to making money? More than a couple of verses which can easily be misconstrued.

Does it go farther even? Is it wrong for the Christian to be in profit making business at all? Morally should there be money to made from healthcare? Construction? Groceries? All aspects of human life that can be constituted necessary, but we profit from those industries. Is that okay?

Just for clarity- I do not work for Thomas Nelson. I work for a much bigger, more evil company wink that is not in the Christian publishing business. I simply want to get the facts out about other publishers in the business and in turn find out what the Bible, the ultimate authority, says in regards to this.

Reformation Monk #21292 Thu Jan 27, 2005 8:08 AM
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Yes, some of those other publishers do have some filth....

IMO the Spirit of the Reformation Study Bible definitely has the better notes in it. When it finally comes out in ESV it will of course be better (notes are being updated as well). Though it presently is in NIV only I use it with a ASV or NASV and it works just fine. There is also talk of the notes being released by Libronix software.


Reformed and Always Reforming,
Gileskirk #21293 Thu Jan 27, 2005 12:13 PM
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ForSBCReform said:
Certainly individuals make income in professional ministry. Pastors, church staff, counselors, et. al. All of the folks who write the books ultimately do it to make money. Is there a difference? What does the Bible say about making money? I know there are statements such as serving two masters and the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil, but what is truly out there with regards to making money? More than a couple of verses which can easily be misconstrued.

Does it go farther even? Is it wrong for the Christian to be in profit making business at all? Morally should there be money to made from healthcare? Construction? Groceries? All aspects of human life that can be constituted necessary, but we profit from those industries. Is that okay?

The workman is worthy of his hire (Luke 10:7) and the Lord has ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel (1 Cor. 9:14).

The executives of big corporations, the writers and translators they hire, and the proprietors of book stores that sell their merchandise are just earning a living. They have a right and duty to market and sell books that will earn the stockholders a profit including bibles. They are not living of the gospel; they are living off the marketplace. If they do not market or sell TNIV, it is only because they may lose an unacceptable number of customers by doing so.

The men who run church publishing houses, their writers, and book store managers operate under a completely different business paradigm. They serve one Master not many. They market and sell only books that are God pleasing no matter what the marketplace is calling for. They live of the gospel not the marketplace.

Last edited by speratus; Thu Jan 27, 2005 12:56 PM.
J_Edwards #21294 Thu Jan 27, 2005 1:13 PM
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J_Edwards said:
Yes, some of those other publishers do have some filth....

IMO the Spirit of the Reformation Study Bible definitely has the better notes in it. When it finally comes out in ESV it will of course be better (notes are being updated as well). Though it presently is in NIV only I use it with a ASV or NASV and it works just fine. There is also talk of the notes being released by Libronix software.

The wait is over: http://www.monergismbooks.com/reformationstudybible.html
<img src="/forum/images/graemlins/bananas.gif" alt="" />


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4Ever_Learning #21295 Thu Jan 27, 2005 1:20 PM
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The Reformation Study Bible is NOT the same Bible, though it is a good one..... The editor of the Spirit of the Reformation Study Bible is Dr. Richard Pratt, not R.C. Sproul. While Sproul has the better translation (at present), the notes are better in Pratt's.


Reformed and Always Reforming,
J_Edwards #21296 Thu Jan 27, 2005 2:46 PM
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oops, My mistake. ;^) Sorry.
I have both but prefer the original Reformation Study Bible the best(NKJ)over the SRSB (NIV) But I do like the helps ad confessions that the SRSB has.


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#21297 Thu Jan 27, 2005 3:05 PM
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If people only really knew how Bible committees work now a days they would just stick with the ASV or NASV..... One would think that when it comes to Bible Translation and making a new improved Bible that is would be one of the holiest events of all times. One would rightly expect trained men in the languages and theology and much prayer and even fasting. In reality though many of the recent translations all have: (1) marketing deadlines, (2) compromises on the meaning of certain texts (one notable one is the way Psa 23:6 actually reads in Hebrew, but because of the traditional reading it has not been changed…), (3) the way a text is sometimes stated is by a majority vote vs. that much talked about exegesis of the text, etc. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/Banghead.gif" alt="" />

Example: When the ESV was being translated when it came to vs 6 of Pas 23 the translators knew that “Forever,” literally meant “for length of days,” ….. through all the days. However, this posed a problem with some—because of the Psalms use at funerals. Since, the Hebrew phrase would have to be explained at funerals (and they actually reasoned…. who would desire to market a Bible which could not be used without complications at funerals or at deathbeds....) it was decided to use the term “Forever” instead of the literal translation with a footnote which states, “Hebrew for length of days”.


Reformed and Always Reforming,
J_Edwards #21298 Thu Jan 27, 2005 3:40 PM
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Don't get upset Joe. Just remember we still have the authorized version and if it was good enough for the Apostle Paul it should be good enough for you and me. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/yep.gif" alt="" />


Wes <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/BigThumbUp.gif" alt="" />


When I survey the wondrous cross on which the Prince of Glory died, my richest gain I count but loss and pour contempt on all my pride. - Isaac Watts
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