The Highway Forums General Discussion Theology Discussion Forum Are Calvinism and Premillennialism Incompatible?

The name of the booklet is:<br>Did Christ Die Only For The Elect?<br>By Charles R. Smith, Th.D<br>Grace Theological Seminary<br><br>Here is another quote from this booklet about limited atonement:<br><br>What was it intended to accomplish? Was it divinely planned only on behalf of the elect as the means by which God "infallibly secured their salvation"? (Spurgeon) Or was it intended as a provision on behalf of all men, in anticipation of which, God, in righteousness, could choose some to whom He would ultimately apply the benefits of that provision?<br><br>I think the last sentence is supposedly the way 4-point Calvinist see the atonement. That statement, to me, is extemely confusing.<br><br>

This may confuse or help the issue I am not sure. Tell me have you ever heard the terms Common/General Grace (for all) and Particular/Special Grace (the elect alone). Some do not believe in common grace--I do!

Berkhof states: The distinction between common and special grace is not one that applies to grace as an attribute in God. There are no two kinds of grace in God, but only one. It is that perfection of God in virtue of which he shows unmerited and even forfeited favor to man. This one grace of God manifests itself, however, in different gifts and operations. The richest manifestation of it is seen in those gracious operations of God which aim at, and result in, the removal of the guilt, the pollution, and the punishment of sin, and the ultimate salvation of sinners. But while this is the crowning work of the grace of God, it is not its only manifestation. It appears also in the natural blessings which God showers upon man in the present life, in spite of the fact that man has forfeited them and lies under the sentence of death. It is seen in all that God does to restrain the devastating influence and development of sin in the world, and to maintain and enrich and develop the natural life of mankind in general and of those individuals who constitute the human race. It should be emphasized that these natural blessings are manifestations of the grace of God to man in general. Some prefer to say that they are expressions of His goodness, kindness, benevolence, mercy, or longsuffering, but seem to forget that He could not be good, kind, or benevolent to the sinner unless He were first of all gracious.

The following points of distinction between special (in the sense of saving) and common grace should be noted:

a. The extent of special grace is determined by the decree of election. This grace is limited to the elect, while common grace is not so limited, but is granted to all men indiscriminately. The decree of election and reprobation has no determining influence on it. It cannot even be said that the elect receive a greater measure of common grace than the non-elect. It is a matter of common knowledge, and has frequently been observed, that the wicked often possess a greater measure of common grace and have a greater share in the natural blessings of life than the pious.

b. Special grace removes the guilt and penalty of sin, changes the inner life of man, and gradually cleanses him from the pollution of sin by the supernatural operation of the Holy Spirit. Its work invariably issues in the salvation of the sinner. Common grace, on the other hand, never removes the guilt of sin, does not renew human nature, but only has a restraining effect on the corrupting influence of sin and in a measure mitigates its results. It does not effect the salvation of the sinner, though in some of its forms (external calling and moral illumination) it may be closely connected with the economy of redemption and have a soteriological aspect.

c. Special grace is irresistible. This does not mean that it is a deterministic force which compels man to believe against his will, but that by changing the heart it makes man perfectly willing to accept Jesus Christ unto salvation and to yield obedience to the will of God. Common grace is resistible, and as a matter of fact is always more or less resisted. Paul shows in Rom. 1 and 2 that neither the Gentiles nor the Jews were living up to the light which they had. Says Shedd: “In common grace the call to believe and repent is invariably ineffectual, because man is averse to faith and repentance and in bondage to sin.” It is ineffectual unto salvation because it leaves the heart unchanged.

d. Special grace works in a spiritual and re-creative way, renewing the whole nature of man, and thus making man able and willing to accept the offer of salvation in Jesus Christ, and to produce spiritual fruits. Common grace, to the contrary, operates only in a rational and moral way by making man in a general way receptive for the truth, by presenting motives to the will, and by appealing to the natural desires of man. This is equivalent to saying that special (saving) grace is immediate and supernatural, since it is wrought directly in the soul by the immediate energy of the Holy Spirit, while common grace is mediate, since it is the product of the mediate operation of the Holy Spirit through the truth of general or special revelation and by moral persuasion. [/LIST] This conception of common grace should be carefully distinguished from that of the Arminians, who regard common grace as a link in the ordo salutis and ascribe to it saving significance. They hold that, in virtue of the common grace of God, the unregenerate man is perfectly able to perform a certain measure of spiritual good, to turn to God in faith and repentance, and thus to accept Jesus unto salvation. They go even farther than that, and maintain that common grace by the illumination of the mind and the persuasive influence of the truth incites the sinner to accept Jesus Christ and to turn to God in faith and repentance, and will certainly achieve this end, unless the sinner obstinately resists the operation of the Holy Spirit. The Canons of Dort have this in mind where they reject the error of those who teach “that the corrupt and natural man can so well use the common grace (by which they understand the light of nature), or the gifts still left him after the fall, that he can gradually gain by their good use a greater, that is, the evangelical or saving grace, and salvation itself."

That was helpful. I had not read anything like that before. Last night, on a web site, I read that God does love the non-elect. The author provided Biblical proof for this. This was a 5-point Calvinist web site. He said that to believe otherwise is hyper-Calvinism. This is not exackly what your article is about, but it touches on the same theme. Who is Berkhof? First name?

Louis Berkhof. His Systematic Theology is the BEST [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/grin.gif" alt="grin" title="grin[/img] IMHO. Pilgrim also has some of his material on-line.

In reply to:

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[color:"blue"]Last night, on a web site, I read that God does love the non-elect. The author provided Biblical proof for this. This was a 5-point Calvinist web site. He said that to believe otherwise is hyper-Calvinism.

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This type of thing has been promoted for a long time, but has no biblical basis for it, even though these people quote verses from the Bible. I mean, even Jehovah Witness' say their religion is based upon the Bible and even ridicule real Christians for their lack of Bible knowledge. But in fact, the knowledge that they have is from twisting biblical texts and thus is false knowledge. One only need read a few texts which are more than sufficient as well as perspicuous to know the truth about this.

Psalms 5:4-6 (ASV) "For thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: Evil shall not sojourn with thee. The arrogant shall not stand in thy sight: [color:red]Thou hatest all workers of iniquity. Thou wilt destroy them that speak lies: Jehovah abhorreth the blood-thirsty and deceitful man.

Psalms 11:4-7 (ASV) "Jehovah is in his holy temple; Jehovah, his throne is in heaven; His eyes behold, his eyelids try, the children of men. Jehovah trieth the righteous; [color:red]But the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth. Upon the wicked he will rain snares; Fire and brimstone and burning wind shall be the portion of their cup. For Jehovah is righteous; he loveth righteousness: The upright shall behold his face."

Proverbs 6:16-19 (ASV) "There are six things which Jehovah hateth; Yea, seven which are an abomination unto him: Haughty eyes, a lying tongue, And hands that shed innocent blood; A heart that deviseth wicked purposes, Feet that are swift in running to mischief, A false witness that uttereth lies, And he that soweth discord among brethren."

Malachi 1:2-4 (ASV) "I have loved you, saith Jehovah. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother, saith Jehovah: yet I loved Jacob; [color:red]but Esau I hated, and made his mountains a desolation, and [gave] his heritage to the jackals of the wilderness. Whereas Edom saith, We are beaten down, but we will return and build the waste places; thus saith Jehovah of hosts, They shall build, but I will throw down; and men shall call them The border of wickedness, and The people against whom Jehovah hath indignation for ever."

Romans 9:6-13 (ASV) "But [it is] not as though the word of God hath come to nought. For they are not all Israel, that are of Israel: neither, because they are Abraham's seed, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, it is not the children of the flesh that are children of God; but the children of the promise are reckoned for a seed. For this is a word of promise, According to this season will I come, and Sarah shall have a son. And not only so; but Rebecca also having conceived by one, [even] by our father Isaac-- for [the children] being not yet born, neither having done anything good or bad, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth, it was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. Even as it is written, Jacob I loved, [color:red]but Esau I hated."

This article speaks to the issue directly and should be of great help to bring you to a proper understanding of God's love: Does God Love the Sinner and Hate Only His Sin? by Dr. John Gerstner.

God is BENEVOLENT toward the reprobate. He provides for their physical and earthly needs by His providence (Matt 5:43ff). Some may wish to call this the "love of God", but in doing so, they are creating much and unnecessary confusion for themselves and particularly others. The overwhelming reference to God's "love" in Scripture is salvific; i.e., it has reference to salvation; it's eternal purpose and end being from eternity. The "love" of God is not an emotion but rather the preference of God shown in His decree and application of that decree, i.e., His works. We can see that here clearly enough:

Ephesians 1:3-14 (ASV) "Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly [places] in Christ: even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blemish before him in love: having foreordained us unto adoption as sons through Jesus Christ unto himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, to the praise of the glory of his grace, which he freely bestowed on us in the Beloved: in whom we have our redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, which he made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence, making known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he purposed in him unto a dispensation of the fulness of the times, to sum up all things in Christ, the things in the heavens, and the things upon the earth; in him, [I say,] in whom also we were made a heritage, having been foreordained according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his will; to the end that we should be unto the praise of his glory, we who had before hoped in Christ: in whom ye also, having heard the word of the truth, the gospel of your salvation,-- in whom, having also believed, ye were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, which is an earnest of our inheritance, unto the redemption of [God's] own possession, unto the praise of his glory."

In His Grace,

Thanks for posting that link...I was looking for it but forgot what it was called. [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/laugh.gif" alt="laugh" title="laugh[/img]

Does God Love the Sinner and Hate Only Sin:<br><br>Thanks - from me, too. I bookmarked that site.

Johannah,<br><br>You just might be surprised what you can find on The Highway website. With over 1000 books, articles, sermons, etc., there is quite a selection to choose from. Want to known if there is something there on a particular topic, word, phrase, Bible verse, etc.? Just go here:<br><br>Search The Highway (Advanced Search) When searching for something that consists of more than one word or there are spaces involved, enclose the search item in [color:red]"</font color=red>quotes[color:red]"</font color=red>.<br><br>

Yup, lotsa good stuff 'round here. Been reading through the charismatic stuff lately, along with the eschatological stuff. Great resources and I, for one, appreciate this. You guys even know plenty of good stuff from other sites. Thanks friends!<br><br><br>God bless,<br><br>william

was wondering what is your answer to the question that Joe posed:<br><blockquote>Funny, how can there be a secret rapture when Christ comes with a Shout?</blockquote><br>I'm not sure you've answered this since I have finished going through the entire thread yet.<br>That's also been one of the questions that I have always had since I've heard of "secret" rapture.<br><br><blockquote>1 thes 4:16-18<br>For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a [color:red]shout</font color=red>, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. <br>Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. <br>. </blockquote><br><br>thanks.<br>brother in christ,<br><br>Carlos <br>

Carlos,<br><br>For the "biblical" answer, see here: The Rapture<br><br>In His Grace,

I had never heard that it was secret. All believers on the earth will disappear. Obviously this will be noticed by the people left. I don't know where he got "secret" from.

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]I don't know where he got "secret" from. </font><hr></blockquote><p> [color:red]From dispensational literature.</font color=red><br><br>Silver, The Lord’s Return, p. 260, says:<br><blockquote>Quickly and INVISIBLY, unperceived by the world, the Lord will come as a thief in the night and catch away His waiting saints.</blockquote> Roberts, How to be Personally Prepared for the Second Coming of Christ, p. 34, says:<br><br><blockquote>His appearance in the clouds will be veiled to the human eye and NO ONE WILL SEE HIM. He will slip in, slip out; move in to get His jewels and slip out as under the cover of night.</blockquote> <br>Ford, Seven Simple Sermons on the Second Coming, p. 51, says:<br><br><blockquote>[The rapture] will be a SECRET appearing, and only the believers will know about it.</blockquote> Bishop, The Doctrine of Grace, p. 341, says:<br><br><blockquote>It will be a SECRET rapture — QUIET, NOISELESS, sudden as the step of the thief in the night. All that the world will know will be that multitudes at once have gone.</blockquote> As compared to Scripture with says:<br><br><blockquote>1 Thes 4:16-18 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with [color:red]a shout</font color=red>, with the [color:red]voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God</font color=red>, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. </blockquote><br>

At the rapture coming, we will be caught up to meet Him <span style="background-color:yellow;">in the clouds.</span> He does not set foot on earth. I don't know that the references you used are necessarily accurate. There are many cults out there who also believe in the rapture. Also, many Christians who are not careful about their exegesis. No Christian who is biblical will ever try to "date" it.<br><br>Here is an excellent web site on this subject:<br><br>http://www.raptureme.com/ttcol.html<br><br>

thanks Joe, you took the answer right out my mouth [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/smile.gif" alt="smile" title="smile[/img]. <br>that's right, every dispy writings that I've come across thur far says it's secret.<br><br><br>Carlos