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li0scc0 #2864 Thu May 15, 2003 3:09 PM
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Amen! How do we know what early church psalms sounded like? They may very well have sounded offensive to our modern ears as far as the melody goes. And the Hebrew Songs of the Old Testament are still sung by Jews to this day. I for one think they sound beautiful but i have a friend that says that they sound horrible.

li0scc0 #2865 Thu May 15, 2003 3:13 PM
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I guess were both just stupid "metalheads"

Pilgrim #2866 Thu May 15, 2003 3:19 PM
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Hey Pilgrim!<br>I think I grasped your point (I may be stupid, but I am able to grasp a point now and then [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/laugh.gif" alt="laugh" title="laugh[/img] )<br><br>You said can there be anything which does not glorify God which is good. The answer is no, of course not. A common gracer would say yes, but (just kidding, don't want to open up THAT can of worms [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/drop.gif" alt="drop" title="drop[/img] ).<br><br>To that end, I asked if the melody for Rock of Ages by Toplady glorifies God in and of itself. My answer would be no.<br><br>And thus I think the same would be the case with metal music. My association with metal has always been with pretty evil bands. A few of the individual songs had profound messages at the core, actually, but the approach was horrid (profanity-laced lyrics) and thus they were neither good nor God-glorifying. That being said, I don't see that there is anything inherently bad in the music itself, and that it is feasible that the medium could be used to glorify God. <br><br>It is funny that I say this, because worship bands and pop Christian songs in general repulse me. This is likely because every worship band I have witnessed has been incoherent, the lyrics weak, and thus they and the congregation did not glorify God. <br><br>And Pilgrim, don't back out now! The fun is just beginning! Crank the amps up to 11 ! ("ours go to 11" - anybody remember what that is from? ).<br><br>Blessings,<br>Steve


Grace is not common.
li0scc0 #2867 Thu May 15, 2003 3:42 PM
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Steve, try reading this for starters: "Christian" Rock Music Christian or Satanic?<br><br>And there are quite a number of good articles which deal with music in this section: Ecclesiology: The Doctrine of the Church<br><br>And of course, this one too: Worship in the Melting Pot<br><br><br><br>


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#2868 Thu May 15, 2003 3:45 PM
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I will say this...being a metalhead can be stupid. I'm half deaf in one ear because of loud music.<br><br>So maybe there is something to be said about it being inherently bad.... <br><br>Blessings,<br>Steve


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Pilgrim #2869 Thu May 15, 2003 3:54 PM
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Just read "Christian Rock Music..Christian or Satanic".<br>Much of the article could be turned on ANY hymn, and certain parts (especially the scientific sections) are rather dated and speculative. However, the author has a FANTASTIC point that the score should not overshadow the message. <br><br>When my folks (rightly) used to question my listening to metal, my response was always "I like the music, I can hardly hear the lyrics". And THAT point is a great one AGAINST Christian metal. "Good" (secular meaning of good) metal music is going to be loud, and although the lyrics are understood and should be comprehended, they are at best 50% of the package. <br><br>A case could be made that we shouldn't listen to anything except for church hymns (or perhaps merely even Psalms). Because I love classical music as well, but I'm not sure it is God-glorifying. <br><br>Steve


Grace is not common.
li0scc0 #2870 Thu May 15, 2003 3:58 PM
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Good point. But i used to be in a band myself and my ears are fine. This was before Christ of course so i think it hurt me more spiritually than it did physically.

li0scc0 #2871 Thu May 15, 2003 4:52 PM
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<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]Is the music itself "amoral"? Depends how it is used, right? Is a computer amoral? If I look at internet porn, it is immoral. If I read the Bible online or read the works of AW Pink online, then it is a great tool for me to learn more about God. So too if guitar music accompanies godly lyrics, then the guitar music is not immoral, but if it accompanies Slayer or Megadeth, then it is pretty immoral.</font><hr></blockquote><p> And David in the Psalms played heavy metal, right? Did he rock around the clock, or Rock around the Throne? [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/heavy.gif" alt="heavy" title="heavy[/img]<br><br>Even in John Frame’s, Contemporary Worship Music, a Biblical Defense, a rather liberal book IMHO, he makes this statement, [color:blue]Because God is who He is, worship must be God centered. We worship God because He supremely deserves it, and because He desires it.</font color=blue> Now, of course, you will say, well I am just listening to heavy metal music while not in my worship mode…, but then that bears the question when God said you should stop worshiping. True worship is continuous. They that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth (John 4:24), and I do not believe that means “merely” sometimes. Our bodies are the TEMPLE of the Holy Spirit (all the time)—think of His ears!<br>


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li0scc0 #2872 Thu May 15, 2003 9:48 PM
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more good points. I give up though.[img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/surrender.gif" alt="surrender" title="surrender[/img] I didn't know this was gonna turn into[img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/argue.gif" alt="argue" title="argue[/img] I just thought i could find some people on here with similar musical interests. Oh well. I'm cool with hymns. We can talk about that to.

#2873 Thu May 15, 2003 11:45 PM
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I like Zao, Living Sacrifice, Satvesacre, Project 86, Blindside, 3rd Root, a now broken up Christian punk band Officer Negative, Strongarm, uuuhhh...there is a local band here in Evansville called The Redemption Song, Dogwood, The Fighting Jacks (an indie band out of San Jose who has a CD coming out on Tooth and Nail this Oct I believe), Embodyment, Chevelle...that is about all that comes to mind. Just thought I'd share [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/cool.gif" alt="cool" title="cool[/img]

J_Edwards #2874 Fri May 16, 2003 7:34 AM
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And David in the Psalms played heavy metal, right? Did he rock around the clock, or Rock around the Throne?<br><br>Did he have a $500,000 pipe organ?<br><br>Steve


Grace is not common.
li0scc0 #2875 Fri May 16, 2003 9:39 AM
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<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]Did he have a $500,000 pipe organ?</font><hr></blockquote><p> Since, God was the object of his thought and conscious he did not need one. But what is a harp, a piano turned on its side, thus if I could find his harp today it would probably be worth more that $500,000, as if this really matters [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/flatcat.gif" alt="flatcat" title="flatcat[/img]. The type of instrument is not what is in "question", thus your argument equivocal.<br><br>P.S. David did attempt to use heavy-metal, but he took it off to fight Goliath [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/grin.gif" alt="grin" title="grin[/img]


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J_Edwards #2876 Fri May 16, 2003 10:20 AM
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No, the price nor the instrument matters, does it? <br>


Grace is not common.
li0scc0 #2877 Fri May 16, 2003 10:29 AM
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In reply to:
[color:"blue"]No, the price nor the instrument matters, does it?

Absolutely! [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/grin.gif" alt="grin" title="grin[/img] But what DOES matter is the playing, listening or even being attracted to "music" that is antithetical to everything that exemplifies God. One cannot simply "baptize" something godless and expect that it will glorify God. Nor can one use something godless for the purpose of promoting Christianity. The entire idea is inane yet incredibly popular. However, it is more than simply popular as it is actually cultic in its hold on those who have allowed themselves to embrace it. Trying to wean someone from CCM, never mind this "Metal" stuff is like trying to get a heroine addict to quit cold turkey.

1 John 2:16 (KJV) "For all that [is] in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world."


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li0scc0 #2878 Fri May 16, 2003 10:39 AM
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In reply to:
No, the price nor the instrument matters, does it?

The key is does it glorify God. Now how that is worked out will reveal whether one goes towards truth or error in his interpretation of what is right in God's eyes. I have no objection to any type of instrument as long as it is used correctly for God's glory. The Corinthian church was reprimanded for there improper use of certain gifts in the church and Paul's reply was to do all-things decently and in order. Paul did not desire confusion in the church. Does heavy metal cause confusion in-the church or in the soul of man, et. al. I would have to say YES!

1 Corinthians 13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
MacArthur comments on this verse saying, In NT times, rites honoring the pagan deities Cybele, Bacchus, and Dionysius included ecstatic noises accompanied by gongs, cymbals, and trumpets. I believe that could also be applied to heavy-metal.

MacArthur, John. The MacArthur Study Bible. Electronic ed., 1 Co 13:1. Nashville, TN: Word Pub., 1997, c1997.


Reformed and Always Reforming,
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