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#49695 Fri Apr 26, 2013 9:53 AM
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In the last few years I've been hearing teaching about God's redeeming (restoring) earth just as He will do with saints. Before, I haven't heard much or any of that teaching. Is it a teaching that is being reclaimed, or what? If it is a reclaimed teaching, how can we be used by God as a means of redeeming earth? God uses us as means in redeeming man, but I'm unsure about earth.

I know Revelation 21 speaks of the new heaven and earth but I have thought of earth as relating to redemption of man. I'm a little confused here, so any help will be appreciated.


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I am not sure what you are asking so could you explain further. Would this discussion be helpful to you? It is one which was started by you a while back.


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Thanks for linking the old thread. In some aspects the questions are similar, but not in another. I'm sorry I cannot explain my thoughts clearer. Later, I will attempt a re-write.


John Chaney

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Originally Posted by John_C
In the last few years I've been hearing teaching about God's redeeming (restoring) earth just as He will do with saints. Before, I haven't heard much or any of that teaching. Is it a teaching that is being reclaimed, or what? If it is a reclaimed teaching, how can we be used by God as a means of redeeming earth? God uses us as means in redeeming man, but I'm unsure about earth.

I know Revelation 21 speaks of the new heaven and earth but I have thought of earth as relating to redemption of man. I'm a little confused here, so any help will be appreciated.
I'm going to take a guess and run with what it seems you are asking, i.e., since man is being "redeemed" now and will be "redeemed" (glorified) at the last day... and the earth shall ultimately become the New Heaven and New Earth, then in a similar way, is the earth being "redeemed" now also? And, if so, then what is our role in bringing this to pass? Would that accurately describe your question?

Now..... if my understanding of what you are asking is totally off, then the following comments are going to be woefully irrelevant and I will apologize now for you perhaps taking the time to read them. grin

What immediately comes to mind is this:

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Romans 8:16-23 (ASV) "The Spirit himself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are children of God: and if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with [him], that we may be also glorified with [him]. For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed to us-ward. For the earnest expectation of the creation waiteth for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to vanity, not of its own will, but by reason of him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the liberty of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. And not only so, but ourselves also, who have the first-fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for [our] adoption, [to wit], the redemption of our body."
Notice that Paul doesn't speak of "redemption" of the earth, but rather of it being "delivered from the bondage of corruption". By this he means the travail of being subjected to the curse of Adam's transgression; both for mankind and the creation.

Thus, Paul rejoices that all the woes, pain, suffering, even death which the whole creation is having to endure at this time will be removed when the sons of God; those who are united to Christ by a true living faith, receive their new incorruptible bodies in their glorification. Likewise, the earth, aka: creation, will be delivered from the effects of that curse when it is transformed into the New Heaven and New Earth.

Notice, that even those who have received the "first fruits", i.e., the indwelling Holy Spirit, groan under the weight of sin's consequences, NOW... and await with great anticipation for their deliverance from it. Likewise, the creation (earth) must wait until that last day for its deliverance. There is no progressive deliverance during this interim period. For the truth is that things shall become worse and worse until Christ returns. Paul describes this period of time as one of "travail", i.e., to be empathic in regard to the pain being experienced in anticipation of deliverance. In short, the Church and its members are not called upon to "redeem" this earth, for it will be burned with fire and all will be destroyed (2Pet 3:10-12). And only thereafter will the New Heavens and New Earth come to pass.

So again, if the above doesn't address your question, then please accept my apologies and do try and explain what it really is you are asking. giggle


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Yes, that was my question. In addition, it seems to me I'm hearing more commentary using the new heaven and a new earth terminology that makes me wonder if they are talking about something that we as Christians should be doing. Especially in terms of deed ministry.



John Chaney

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Well things are certainly MUCH worse now then when Paul preached.



If you believe that I've got some Utah beachfront property for you to look at.

I'd take the time to rehash some of Boettner's optimism but frankly I was an am disturbed by the mocking tone I was answered with when I presented this before. You can find it beginning on page 38 of your copy of The Mellinnium


Likewise, the earth, aka: creation, will be delivered from the effects of that curse when it is transformed into the New Heaven and New Earth.

Im not aware of any curse in Heaven, can some one explain this?

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Originally Posted by John_C
Yes, that was my question. In addition, it seems to me I'm hearing more commentary using the new heaven and a new earth terminology that makes me wonder if they are talking about something that we as Christians should be doing. Especially in terms of deed ministry.
Okay, I have to ask... What is "deed ministry"??? scratch1


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Originally Posted by Hitch
Well things are certainly MUCH worse now then when Paul preached.

I'd take the time to rehash some of Boettner's optimism but frankly I was an am disturbed by the mocking tone I was answered with when I presented this before. You can find it beginning on page 38 of your copy of The Mellinnium
I really do like Boettner in so much of his writings. But his The Millennium is not something I appreciated and found disagreeing with his view(s) on too many things, especially his typical view of the "Golden Age".

To counter this unfounded optimism, I would counter Boettner with his critique of Postmillennialism and the "Golden Age" in particular which one can find in his excellent book, The Promise of the Future, pp. 225,6 and p. 340ff "Evaluating Postmillennialism" (Chapter 12). grin


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John,

Is the discussion in this thread and/or this thread similar to what you are asking about?

If so, I started noticing it at my church a few years ago and it has only increased. My thought is that this idea is not correct (for reasons given in the threads and Pilgrim in this one).


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Deed ministry is wrapped up in what is meant in Scripture with the use of the wording, 'word or deed' or 'word and deed'. What all does deed entail, especially in the outreach of the church. Word ministry is described by reading the Bible, preaching, teaching, bible studies, etc. However, I am unsure of what I am hearing when speaking of deed ministry. There seems to be a hint of it as getting out into the community and providing help and aid by meeting people's physical and emotional needs primarily.



John Chaney

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John,

Thanks for the info. I'll ask around to see if I can clear it up.

I know there is no sympathy for NT Wright in the church, but it is possible that some of his language has sneaked in.


John Chaney

"having been firmly rooted and now being built up in Him and established in your faith . . ." Colossians 2:7
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Originally Posted by John_C
Deed ministry is wrapped up in what is meant in Scripture with the use of the wording, 'word or deed' or 'word and deed'. What all does deed entail, especially in the outreach of the church. Word ministry is described by reading the Bible, preaching, teaching, bible studies, etc. However, I am unsure of what I am hearing when speaking of deed ministry. There seems to be a hint of it as getting out into the community and providing help and aid by meeting people's physical and emotional needs primarily.
I am more than uneasy with this bifurcation of bringing the Word of God to people and dealing with physical and emotional needs. The Church's ministry is always to be BOTH without separation. For example:

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James 2:14-16 (ASV) "What doth it profit, my brethren, if a man say he hath faith, but have not works? can that faith save him? If a brother or sister be naked and in lack of daily food, and one of you say unto them, Go in peace, be ye warmed and filled; and yet ye give them not the things needful to the body; what doth it profit?"
And the opposite is likewise true... what good is it if you clothe those who are naked or feed the hungry and speak not of that person's need of being reconcilded to God? One can dedicate their life to feeding the hungry, clothing the poor, etc., but if he remains silent as to one's need of Christ and the forgiveness of sins, what ultimate benefit shall the one whose immediate physical and/or emotional needs is met have when he stands before God at the judgment?

We must meet the needs (NOT Maslow's 'Hierarchy of Needs') of the WHOLE man.


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Well founded optimism;

20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.


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