The Highway Forums General Discussion Open Forum Cooperative Shibboleths

Now I'd like to ponder something for a moment: We call ourselves Evangelicals, for most of us here this means we recognize our Reformation roots and even celebrate them a bit. But to what extent should this cooperation be? Now my family's background is Lutheran, but I am Reformed Baptist. I recognize that the Lutheran Church (Liberal and Conservative) holds to doctrine that I would call in error; Baptismal Regeneration, Consubstantiation, separating justification into a objective and subjective sense (So that God may save the entire World and yet not all are saved). All these teaching keep me from being under the Lutheran Church or accepting its teaching. But should it keep me from having co-worship services? Or co-bible studies? And what about the other denominations whose differences keep us apart?

Since most denominations ascribe to the essentials of the faith, we should be able to worship and fellowship together. Why is that a possible problem. It may be because when we begin to peel some of the layers off some denomination's beliefs, we find differences in understanding of the essentials. A man-centered or works belief system cannot be fit into the essentials of the faith. It may depend on how well can we mask those differences in whether we can profit from worshipping together. I would think the bible study would hinge on the leadership of the study. <br><br>Besides the Lutherans that you mentioned, I can think of the Methodists. They hold to a concept of prevenient grace, whatever that really is. All I know is that they believe one can fall from grace and hold strongly to arminian theology.

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]It may be because when we begin to peel some of the layers off some denomination's beliefs, we find differences in understanding of the essentials.</font><hr></blockquote><p>BINGO! John, you hit the proverbial nail squarely on the head with that statement. Man, could I relate some stories! [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/laugh.gif" alt="laugh" title="laugh[/img] But, I'll restrain myself and only tell one.<br><br>I visited a PCA congregation outside of Gordon Conwell Theological Seminary many years ago. Being a Presbyterian denomination, I had assumed that the preaching and teaching would be quite acceptable. Now, I have also learned over the years that one of the things to investigate when considering a church home is the library, book table (if they have one), brochures offered to the public, etc. After the "worship" service, which was anything but typical of Presbyterianism, e.g., the centrality of the preaching, sobriety in worshiping God in "fear and reverence", exposition of biblical texts, etc., I mulled around the foyer and talked with a few of the very friendly people. Nowhere was there to be found ANYTHING that could even remotely be considered "reformed". There was generic and Arminian-based literature everywhere. I also noticed that there wasn't a copy of the Westminster Standards; neither in the pews, in the back of the Hymnal (normally the Trinity Hymnal which wasn't used) or in a book rack somewhere.<br><br>Eventually, one of the Elders approached me and asked if I "enjoyed" the morning. After the typical chit chat I asked him why it was that I couldn't find any literature which contained what we call "Calvinism" or the "Reformed Faith". The look on his face said it all. But he retorted that the word, "Calvinism" was NEVER mentioned in that church as it was offensive to some people. I then asked where I could find a copy of the Westminster Standards, and again I got "that look"! [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/laugh.gif" alt="laugh" title="laugh[/img] No, he said, we don't use the Westminster Standards as they felt no need to reference them. Unfortunately, this little story could be repeated for quite a number of "Reformed" churches I have visited. I guess it just goes to show, you can't judge a church by its cover! [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/evilgrin.gif" alt="evilgrin" title="evilgrin[/img]<br><br>In His Grace,

Great story, Pilgrim! I will add a similar one.<br><br>A few years ago when I was looking for a Reformed church, my first attendance was at a PCA church merely 6 blocks from my house! The church was attractive, the location perfect, the congregation growing....I thought I was set! <br>As I walked into the building a few minutes before service, my body started vibrating as the worship band was cranking up a tune. The electric guitars and bass were amplified to the level of a Metallica concert. Instantly my mind flashed back to my tatto-getting and concert-going days....perhaps there was going to be an "up with Jesus" mosh pit? Nah, couldn't be. <br>The service was truly Charismatic. The congregation kept lifting their hands to the air for receiving the Holy Spirit. The sermon was personal (i.e. a personal story by the pastor) and Christ was not mentioned. It was an entertaining story the "preacher" told, but unrelated to the Bible.<br>The best part about the day was that I got a free coffee mug out of the deal. It was a great mug until one day, while reading Arthur Pink, I dropped it on the floor and the mug met its demise. Oh well.<br><br>Steve

While we're all telling stories, I figured I would join in ...<br><br>On our way back from our Youth Missions trip to Moose Factory, Ontario, we had to stay overnight in Cochrane, ON with the next day falling on the Lord's Day. First I called a CRC church and was able to speak to a very nice lady, who informed me that they had no pastor that day, but as a deacon she would be giving the sermon. So, I kept looking. We found a church called Knox Presbyterian Church that was within walking distance from our hotel. Knox Presbyterian Church! With a name like that, I could just see the pastor stretched over the pulpit, pointing his finger as he hammered us with glorious divine truth! No one was available when I called, so we took a walk on Saturday to see the place. It was a quaint, simple, historic building that had all the appearance of reformed antiquity, this was going to be great! The next day we arrived and our group of 10 doubled the church attendence. I thought that this too was a good sign, for I would expect that a truly Reformed church would be rather modest in its size.<br><br>Come to find out, the church was without a pastor so they had a seminary student fill in for the day. Hey, no problem I thought. We'll probably get some kind of exhaustive scholastic disputation on the latest interesting theological tidbit this young man has learned, but that's okay, we can handle that for a day. Relaxing into the pew, I congratulated myself for leading my little flock to this little spring in the desert ... but wait ... why are they rolling out that television in front of the pulpit? Perhaps we will watch a video about John Knox first to get our spiritual juices primed? Well, not quite. It was a video pining for donations towards some world hunger project being done in conjunction with the PCUSA. My hopes were being dashed. But alas, it was only a short time, and we sang some traditional hymns, so perhaps this was a unique aberation introduced by some well-meaning members while they were without a pastor.<br><br>The seminary student was a Lutheran in training. He was to preach from the texts appointed in their liturgical calendar. Unfotunately, I cannot remember them now, though I do know Romans 9 was included. It is hard to remember the Scripture texts because his sermon barely touched on them. His emphasis was on the impossibility of comprehensive knowledge of Scripture, and hence the church must be careful about pretending to have any absolute truth. He gave us many quotations and references to Karl Barth.<br><br>Knox Presbyterian Church ... Well, so much for what's in a name. [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/weep.gif" alt="weep" title="weep[/img]<br><br>~Jason

oh, man I wanted to hear about the woman preacher!

Well, I just have to tell this story. It is both funny and sad.<br><br>About 18 years ago my husband and six children and I moved from the thriving metropolis of St. Petersburg, Florida to a SMALL town in East Tennessee. We were homeschooling at the time and Florida was hot on our heels, so be moved to the country so we could hide!!<br><br>We didn't know where to attend church as a Reformed Baptist Church was a little hard to find in a city where the World Headquarters of the Church of God(or maybe it was the Assembly of God), either way we finally found this small Baptist Church where the Pastor believed in the "doctrines of grace" ( I can't even remember who even sold us this bag of goods!<br><br>Anyway, after about 3 minutes I was so afraid I wanted to run out of the back door, however, I knew without a doubt at any given moment the snake handlers would be coming in the door. I was in shook, not to mention my sweet, quiet, children. Well, for what ever reason my ex-husband wanted to keep going to this church. Being the submissive wife that I am I went. One Sunday, as we waited for the pastor, someone came running in the door telling us that the pastor had been shot! Well, a little confused(which seemed to be our state of mind during those years)we finally found out that the pastor was on his way to church(while the gunman was on his way to the church to shot him) when he stopped to get some mints. The gunman ran in an shot him, accusing him of having an affair with his wife, who had previously(with the gunman) been a member of the church.<br><br><br><br>The pastor eventually had his leg amputated, and we moved back down to Florida.<br><br>Now, I always meet with the pastor and ask MANY questions before even attending a church.<br><br>Grace