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Roman Catholic "salvation" #29802
Fri Dec 09, 2005 2:31 PM
Fri Dec 09, 2005 2:31 PM
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South Dakota
li0scc0 Offline OP
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<font face="Impact">Shame on you, Benedict!</font>

Nonbelievers Too Can Be Saved, Says Pope

VATICAN CITY, NOV. 30, 2005 (Zenit.org).- Whoever seeks peace and the good of the community with a pure conscience, and keeps alive the desire for the transcendent, will be saved even if he lacks biblical faith, says Benedict XVI.

On a rainy morning in Rome, the Holy Father ...addressed ...more than 23,000 people gathered in St. Peter's Square, (saying):

(A)mong the inhabitants of Babylon there are people who are committed to peace and the good of the community, despite the fact that they do not share the biblical faith, that they do not know the hope of the Eternal City to which we aspire.... They have a spark of desire for the unknown, for the greatest, for the transcendent, for a genuine redemption.... (A)mong the nonbelievers, there are people with this spark, with a kind of faith, of hope, in the measure that is possible for them in the circumstances in which they live.... With this faith in an unknown reality, they are really on the way to the authentic Jerusalem, to Christ.... God will not allow them to perish with Babylon, having predestined them to be citizens of Jerusalem, on the condition, however, that, living in Babylon, they do not seek pride, outdated pomp and arrogance.


Grace is not common.
Re: Roman Catholic "salvation" [Re: li0scc0] #29803
Fri Dec 09, 2005 5:18 PM
Fri Dec 09, 2005 5:18 PM
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Pilgrim Offline

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Pilgrim  Offline

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Let's not forget, however, that unless the Pope spoke "ex cathedra", his words are not binding upon anyone. So despite the incredibly unbiblical statement, it doesn't hold any sway and it gives the RCC a way out. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />


[Linked Image]

simul iustus et peccator

[Linked Image]
Re: Roman Catholic "salvation" [Re: Pilgrim] #29804
Fri Dec 09, 2005 5:24 PM
Fri Dec 09, 2005 5:24 PM
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li0scc0 Offline OP
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Pilgrim,
I know I know I know! Ah the loopholes of the Roman Catholic Church. So, even though this is in contradiction not only to the Scriptures but to writings of previous RCC theologians, Popes, and Church Fathers, there really "is no contradiction" since this was not spoken ex cathedra - just like the previous Pope and his caving on evolution.


Grace is not common.
Re: Roman Catholic "salvation" [Re: li0scc0] #29805
Fri Dec 09, 2005 5:35 PM
Fri Dec 09, 2005 5:35 PM
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Pilgrim Offline

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Pilgrim  Offline

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You have to realize that the RCC is "becoming" more evan-jelly-cal, i.e., "becoming all things to all men", by interpretation which means, assimilating the church to the world. [Linked Image]

There's no prohibition against the RCC from jumping on the "Emerging Church" bandwagon, ya know. Remember that we can all learn from each other regardless of our personal beliefs. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />


[Linked Image]

simul iustus et peccator

[Linked Image]
Re: Roman Catholic "salvation" [Re: Pilgrim] #29806
Fri Dec 09, 2005 5:39 PM
Fri Dec 09, 2005 5:39 PM
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li0scc0 Offline OP
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You are right.
But wait - who are we to judge? Their views are as good as yours and mine. Maybe they have a point. I need to stop being so intolerant.... <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/puke.gif" alt="" />


Grace is not common.
Re: Roman Catholic "salvation" [Re: Pilgrim] #29807
Fri Dec 09, 2005 7:59 PM
Fri Dec 09, 2005 7:59 PM
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Kelowna, British Columbia, Can...
Tom Offline
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Tom  Offline
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Kelowna, British Columbia, Can...
What I find ironic, is the fact that both this pope and the last are/were considered conservatives.

Tom

Re: Roman Catholic "salvation" [Re: Tom] #29808
Mon Dec 12, 2005 10:30 AM
Mon Dec 12, 2005 10:30 AM
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li0scc0 Offline OP
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But they ARE conservative - remember, to most conservative and liberal are political monikers. Both Popes are against abortion, thus both popes are conservative (politically).


Grace is not common.
Re: Roman Catholic "salvation" [Re: li0scc0] #29809
Mon Dec 12, 2005 10:57 AM
Mon Dec 12, 2005 10:57 AM
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Joe k Offline
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Well at least he mentions predestination!!!!!!

Are you sure this was not taken out of context? HAs he received any flack about this statement? I mean protties went from no salvation possible, to seperated brethren. Now he espouses universalism based on works of peace and charity?


There never was a sinner half as big as Christ is as a Savior.
Re: Roman Catholic "salvation" [Re: Joe k] #29810
Mon Dec 12, 2005 11:01 AM
Mon Dec 12, 2005 11:01 AM
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South Dakota
li0scc0 Offline OP
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Actually Pope John Paul II said exactly the same thing. It is not unique to Benedict.

/scc/


Grace is not common.
Re: Roman Catholic "salvation" [Re: li0scc0] #29811
Mon Dec 12, 2005 11:09 AM
Mon Dec 12, 2005 11:09 AM
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Joe k Offline
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I just read the whole article. It appears to be speakign of the Jews. He says he is quoting augustine. Poor gus gets abused by both the rcc and protties at times.

He also mentions the "spark" of faith attempting to pervert Paul speaking on Mars Hill about the "unknown God"


There never was a sinner half as big as Christ is as a Savior.
Re: Roman Catholic "salvation" [Re: li0scc0] #29812
Mon Dec 12, 2005 11:30 AM
Mon Dec 12, 2005 11:30 AM
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li0scc0 Offline OP
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Lest we think this is isolated to simply Benedict:

From the Catchism of the Catholic Church

CCC#841: 841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."

Notice what this says:
1) People can be saved outside of faith in Christ
2) People can worship God without worshipping the triune God

Seems to me there are numerous heresies in the above!

Steve


Grace is not common.

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