Greetings back to you Kev,
Sorry for the delay, I didn't get a notice that you had responded to this thread and I overlooked it. Hopefully that is now remedied.
I have a confession to make. I am a 4.9 point Calvinist. I have read widely some of the best Reformed writers such as: Jonathan Edwards, John Owen, John Flavel, John Piper...(what's with the John thing?...JC Ryle, Thomas Watson, JI Packer, John Stott, Martyn LLoyd-Jones, etc,etc. and love the vision of God presented.
(Fred) Well, I am glad to know that you are alert to the various authors and the relevant material. That helps in these discussions.
when i read hebrews, and to a lesser extent 2 peter and jude, i stumble. the argument in hebrews and tone of the epistle is an earnest argument not to turn away from christ.
(Fred) As to Hebrews, I believe the difficulty is improved upon when one takes into consideration the point of Hebrews. That being, the author is arguing for a better covenant against an old, obsolete, done away with covenant. Thus, if the person, due to persecution by his Jewish community, was to attempt to return to that old, obsolete covenant, he will be going back to a system that God is no longer working through. When I taught through the doctrines of grace, I dealt with the key objection passages against each point. Obviously, with perseverance of the saints, I dealt with Hebrews 6, and I made a couple of relevant observations. First, The condition that causes the falling away is not stated in the passage. The writer does not state what exactly caused these individuals to fall away. Nor is it clear as to what brought them to this position, or how they arrived at falling away. Is it a specific sin that brings them to falling away? Was it a willful, disobedient act? The passage does not answer why they fell away. Secondly, the author moves from addressing the Hebrews personally "you," "us," and "we" to speaking in generalities "those" and "they." That is significant, because none of the readers are being specifically warned. The author is not saying, "you believers are falling away, or some of you have fallen away;" but he speaks impersonally. More of a hypothetical falling away, rather than one that is real. Then third, it is important to read further into Hebrews 6. Once the scenerio of 6:4-6 is presented to the Hebrews as a warning, the author writes,
but, beloved, we are confident of better things concerning you, yes, things that accompany salvation, though we speak in this manner, (6:9). It appears as though that he is confident that the Hebrew believers were not in danger of leaving their faith.
Moving to Jude and 2 Peter, all I can quickly say is that the warning passages of these two books are addressed to believers to beware of individuals who are not a part of the church. For instance, in Jude 4, it states that we should be on the look out for men who have crept in unnoticed; serial soul killers who have stealthily slipped into a congregation. Jude's warning is not to tell his readers that they are in danger of loosing their salvation if they mess up, but to warn them about the possibility of false teachers coming into Church to prey on the people. I would argue that Peter's words are of a similar fashion. In fact, Jude even gives words of confident assurance to his readers when he points them back to him who is able (has the power/ability) to keep them from stumbling (v.24).
When it comes to warning passages in the Bible, I think we need to look at them as passages that spur on the true believers and weed out those who are not part of God's family. Like I argued under the "irresistible grace" thread, the Bible presents a regenerating grace that is effective in its ability to impart grace, as well as keep the saved until eternity. What would be God's purpose in going to the extent of giving his son to pay the penalty for a person's sin, only to leave the application and effectiveness of that atoning work up to the fickle sinner to decide?
I hope that helps to give you something to think about.
Fred
