James<br><br>Certainly you have not been in the same PCA churches Joe is talking about if you have gone to Redeemer. I listen to Tim Keller's tapes all the time, and as you know he is very strong on not only the grace of God but the obedience to that same God because of His grace. What Joe is talking about is the same feelings I get when a deacon is talking to you about the problem he has with his athletic director(the deacon is a coach and a teacher) and how he used the "F" word not only at the director but in the conversation with me after the service. (Now, rightly so, I am a 50 year old woman, who some would say too old fashion). Quite honestly, not only am I distraught that he says things like this but that he would repeat them to me after a Sunday service! We also have a man who has a drama ministry, that has a dinner party every week, where, it is a well known fact that he gets drunk(while others drink too much). The pastor knows this, but I think since there always seems to be an excuse for what is going on, he believes this guy. Not only does he believe him, but has had him teach Sunday school. They are both very big believers in Sonship, but my pastor said there were a few things to be careful of. From what I see, the PCA is so afraid of the word Law(actually, I think that is becoming an excuse for their own rebellious heart) that they preach only grace messages, and then live in ways they think pleases God. <br><br>I have seen the breakdown of any real holiness of life over the years. When men spend time with women that are not their wives(traveling 2 hrs with a handful of teenagers to a rafting trip) see no problem with that, something is going haywire! Joe is right, the PCA is going down a road they may never recover frm . Really study what the Sonship training teaches. I know personally of a group of pastors at a "Pooped Pastors conference, that someone came back and told a group of us a terribly dirty joke, that one of these pastors told. No wonder these pastors are pooped!! Without the power of the Spirit of God, I would be pooped too!<br><br>We are to defend the faith that was once delivered to the saints
