Originally Posted by MikeL
Originally Posted by Pilgrim
[Again, individuals are specifically mentioned as being hated by God. And, their end has been set; damnation.


Romans 9:11,13 (ASV) "for [the children] being not yet born, neither having done anything good or bad, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth, it was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. Even as it is written, Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated."]
Did Esau serve Jacob? Their descendants served the descendants of Israel. But I don't think any mention of Esau serving Jacob is found in scripture.

Furthermore, the election mentioned in these verses clearly refer to wordly tasks. Do you equate "serving" with damnation?
Again, you have totally ignored the CONTEXT which I clearly pointed out to you speaks incontrovertibly of salvation demonstrated in God showing mercy to WHOM He will show mercy, etc. in the following verses. The antagonists to whom Paul dialogs with in those texts surely were not livid over Esau serving Jacob or the plight of a couple of then non-existent nations. igiveup

As to the rest of your weak response in regard to your consternation of the "changing of words", as I have previously pointed out at least a couple of times, we do not hold to a "psycho-statistical-mean" hermeneutic. Words have various meanings determined by CONTEXT (remember? A text out of context is nothing less than pretext!) Even C.S. Lewis was more than aware of this self-evident truth and even he used words in various ways that had differing meanings. This usage of words exists in all languages. Better get up to speed with such fundamentals if you are going to understand anything you read. wink

Originally Posted by MikeL
Can you please point to a few of my posts that have been inflammatory? I have to be honest with you: your rhetoric is very demeaning. Here are a few of the ways you have characterized me: hypocritical, willingly ignorant, obnoxious, etc. Where have I characterized you, or anyone else in like manner?

You, sir, have been maligning my character for quite a while. Please follow your own guidelines, and I will do the same.
Very unwise...!! [Linked Image]

Originally Posted by MikeL
If you are willing to distance yourself from Calvin, then when I call into question his credentials neither you nor anyone else should feel personally insulted.
I have never felt "personally insulted" by your pejoratives thrown at John Calvin. If anything, I was embarrassed for you. And, I do not intend to "distance" myself from the man Calvin as he was an extraordinary servant of God who has benefited mankind more than most. And once again, I am asking you directly, What have you read of John Calvin? ... be specific, please.

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simul iustus et peccator

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