Kyle writes:

[Apart from Esau selling his birthright to Jacob, Esau did not personally serve Jacob that I can recall.]

Then I think the issue of individual salvation or damnation is closed: the text is not talking about individuals named Jacob and Esau. I suggest, in line with Malachi, from which this text in Romans is drawn, that Paul is actually talking about their descendants.

[In this passage Paul is arguing that God chooses some individuals & not others on no basis other than His own good pleasure (v. 18). Salvation is not on the basis of fleshly descent...]

But chooses them for salvation? Perhaps we're putting that into the text - but it isn't there. Neither the word "salvation" or any of its close concepts is there.

Choosing is there, that we agree. But nothing related to the eternal states of Jacob, Esau, or their respective descendants.

[Indeed, Mike, let us not be too hasty to conclude from Psalm 5 that:

-God takes no pleasure in wickedness;
-no evil dwells with God;
-the boastful shall not stand before God;
-God destroys liars;
-God will grant David entrance to God's house by God's abundant lovingkindness;
-God blesses & protects the righteous.]

Yes, Kyle, I think we need to be careful about these claims you divined. The boastful will surely stand before God - in the judgment. God doesn't destroy all liars - what did Jacob do to secure his brother's birthright? Was Jacob destroyed? And by destroy, do you mean damned? Was Jacob damned? We know that isn't the case. We know David is expressing God's hatred of the sin.

Look, I am not a Unitarian. I don't believe everyone goes to heaven. I know hell is a real place, a terrible place. And I am very sceptical about a theology that damns souls before they're born.

"There are six things the Lord hates, seven that are detestable to him..."

Besides the verse from Proverbs, at least, seems to indicate God hates things. And what does detestable mean? Is this really a verse that strongly supports that God hates people eternally?

A little later on (Prov 21), we are told that false witnesses "perish" and that those who listen to them are "destroyed forever." This again seems less about making claims about eternal state, and more about the seriousness of sin.

Tom writes:

[The words "Accordingly as he hath chosen us in him before the foundations of the world," indicate people God has chosen in Christ, before the foundation of the world."]

Well, I have to respect the form of this point, since I used it myself. Yet compared to Romans 8:29,

"For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers."

Can't I say that God's chose us because he foreknew we'd freely choose him?

Mike